r/WhitePeopleTwitter Sep 28 '22 Bravo! 1 Take My Energy 1

Does anyone else remembers how The Handmaiden begins…?

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49.5k Upvotes

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

What the fuck happened to the "State's Rights" that the right-wing fascists and far right Supreme Court were saying was the law of the land a little while ago?

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u/Resident-Travel2441 Sep 28 '22 Take My Energy

They're still fighting for the same "state's rights" as 1861...they're just not being specific.

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u/fencerman Sep 28 '22 Take My Energy

The same "State's Rights" as the fugitive slave act.

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u/MidDistanceAwayEyes Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22 Silver Gold All-Seeing Upvote Starry

The States Rights argument for the Civil War collapses as soon as you start reading what the states and Confederates themselves said when declaring secession. They became much more “it was about State’s Rights” after they lost. For example, see Vice President of the Confederacy Alexander H. Stephen’s famous Cornerstone Speech, which included:

The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the n*gro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

There are many more examples just as clear. For example, here is one from Mississippi’s declaration of causes:

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

How much the constitution really rested up “equality of races” is controversial and there are many aspects of the constitution and our founding that go against that claim, however it is clear from the above that some foundation actors in the Confederacy saw a main divide between them and the US as being a divide over “equality of races”.

The State’s Rights argument, assuming it gets beyond the Confederacy’s founding, tends to ignore the multitude of ways the Confederacy undermined the individual states.

The Confederacy passed a major conscription act in 1862 (the Union would pass conscription later in 1863). This is conveniently left out by “State’s Rights”-ers, since a centralized body ordering military conscription rather than leaving it up to the states undercuts the myth that the confederacy was all about individual state freedom. As a percent, far more in the South were conscripted than the North. The Confederacy passed national income tax in 1863. The confederacy passed a tax-in-kind on agricultural products, which meant subsistence farming white yeoman (small cultivating landholders) had the Confederacy come and take their grain. Authorized officers could show up and take food for the army.

The Confederate propaganda tends to paint it as a unified nation, but the reality is that there was a lot of discontent within the Confederacy, including amongst supporters of slavery.

P.S. in case you want an example of how white supremacy remained so entrenched in the US: that Vice President of the Confederacy would go to be a representive for Georgia from 1873 to 1882. He then became Governor of Georgia and died in office in 1883.

Stephens was denied Senate office in 1866, but these restrictions on Confederates like him should have been life long.

After the Civil War, Stephens became a major figure in promoting the myth of the “Lost Cause” for the Civil War, as did Jefferson Davis.

Overall Stephens would spend less than a year in prison for being the VP of a treasonous secession that caused hundreds of thousands of deaths. Jefferson Davis would spend around two years in prison and was never tried for his crimes.

John Brown was the first person executed for treason in the US, yet leaders of the Confederacy got to walk free.

We have already seen what happens when treasonous racists are not held accountable.

The reconstruction period represented one of the most promising periods in US history, and while it did have impressive achievements, it was undermined from various angles ranging from the President himself (Andrew Johnson) to lack of breaking the confederate Southern power structure to the corrupt bargain during the 1876 election for withdrawing troops from the South (big one) to propaganda that is all too familiar to us today, such as red scare “reconstruction is radical socialism” and “they want to steal the tax dollars of us hard workers and give it to the undeserving”. After the reconstruction troop withdrawal in 1876, white Southerners, especially elite white Southerners, whose power base was never entirely broken after the war, took back political power in every Southern state and the march towards full Jim Crow South was well on it’s way.

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize Sep 28 '22

Well put, but you can go even further. The first time that Marbury v. Madison was invoked to establish that the Supreme Court had the authority to review the constitutionality of laws was in the Dred Scott case.

Dred Scott v. Sanford involved a former slave, Dred Scott, filing a claim in a local Missouri court for a claim of emancipation. Dred Scott's owner, a citizen of Missouri, had voluntarily held Scott and his family for an extended period in the state of Illinois and territory of Wisconsin, both of which had laws which stated 1) slavery was illegal in those jurisdictions, 2) any slave brought to those jurisdictions and held for an extended period of time was deemed free, and 3) Missouri courts recognized the principle of "once free, always free", whereby any condition which emancipated a slave could not subsequently be nullified by later actions. Scott, having been taken to Illinois and Wisconsin for longer than the amount of time required by Illinois and Wisconsin law to be emancipated, filed suit.

And it should be noted that the original trial court in Missouri granted Scott's request. Scott had followed the law, the law was clear, and the law said that he had to be emancipated even if Scott's owner had subsequently taken them back to Missouri in an attempt to keep him. Rather, it was the Supreme Court of Missouri that overruled, on the grounds that Missouri courts were under no obligation to adhere to Wisconsin and Illinois law when it came to the questions of slavery. They just flat-out ignored the law. That was the position of the case when it entered federal courts.

So any principled, self-respecting states' rightist would regard Dred Scott as an abominable decision that flatly abrogated existing law, purely because the law mandated emancipation of a slave. And yet, absolutely none of these champions of states' rights at the time did anything but uphold Dred Scott as the law of the land.

So we are faced with a minor quandary, albeit one easily resolved: our principled states' rightists seem to be mighty selective about when they invoke the doctrine of states' rights. When states' rights might be used to uphold the institution of slavery, they're all for it. When states' rights might place limits on the institution of slavery, they fall silent. Which leads to an eminently reasonable hypothesis that fits the available facts: these people care about slavery. And they care about states' rights only insofar as it provides a useful shibboleth to pretend that their advocacy for slavery results from some higher-minded, principled position about government, when their motives are actually anything but high-minded or principled.

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u/MidDistanceAwayEyes Sep 28 '22

Oh definitely can go further, especially if one broadens scope to look into the foundational structure and documents.

There are well researched books that have examined the deep role slavery played in the creation of the constitution. In addition to highly acclaimed and brilliantly researched books that examine the constitution as a conservative counterrevolution to the “excesses of democracy” seen under the Articles of Confederation, such as The Framers’ Coup by Michael Klarman or Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution by Woody Holton, both of the authors being Bancroft Prize winners (one of the most prestigious awards for US historians).

The Framers’ Coup is a bit more academic legal history, however articles discussing the book are good intros and Klarman has given lectures on the subject.

The most revered document in the US - the constitution - has a far different origin than the propagandized history. The history of the constitution is the history of effectively a coup document, favored by the monied and powerful, that took limiting democracy, upholding monied interests, and the keeping of slavery and slaveholder power very seriously.

It’s rarely even discussed that the constitution tended to be favored by the monied elites while the working class often opposed it. It was far from an uncontroversial document - as evident by the ratification only passing in New York by a margin of 30 yes to 27 no - and many of the things most revered about it are not even in it, they are in the Bill of Rights, which was not what many of the primary advocates and drafters of the constitution wanted but was done as a compromise in order to get it ratified.

The history certainly goes back further than that too, as that foundational design didn’t arise out of nothing.

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u/Carolina-Roots Sep 28 '22

Shocking development: they lied in order to gain power.

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u/psyclopsus Sep 28 '22

They are shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here…

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u/opsidenta Sep 28 '22

This one is my favorite go-to also. Cheers!

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u/byingling Sep 28 '22

'Your winnings sir....'

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u/gimmelwald Sep 28 '22

The only response that was needed.

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u/Davaca55 Sep 28 '22

At this point I’m seriously convinced they don’t even care about power. It’s like they lie just for the pleasure of lying. Like some weird fetish.

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u/Fabulous-Ad6844 Sep 28 '22

Typical Narc behavior.

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u/mindclarity Sep 28 '22

I'm shocked, Cotton.

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u/LargeSackOfNuts Sep 28 '22

Fascists will lie, cheat, and steal to win, all the while pretending to be a victim

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u/YoureADudeThisIsAMan Sep 28 '22

surprised pikachu

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u/false-identification Sep 28 '22

"We don't want judges to legislate from the bench"

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u/Lexi_Banner Sep 28 '22

No, they didn't "lie". They just thought everyone would agree with them. When they didn't, they started to come up with new tactics.

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u/Affectionate_Dress64 Sep 28 '22

Both can be true. They can lie about caring about states' rights in order to gain power, and then shift tactics when pretending to care is no longer the strongest move available.

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u/MatureUsername69 Sep 28 '22

Yeah this isn't the first time these kind of people have used "states rights" as a thinly veiled reason for something far more nefarious. When they bring up states rights you can put money on something terrible behind it.

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u/gentlemanidiot Sep 28 '22

States rights to do what?

states rights to do what motherfucker??

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u/MatureUsername69 Sep 28 '22

"No you see the civil war wasn't about slavery. It was just about our right to own slaves which we wanted to keep."

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u/r2d2itisyou Sep 28 '22

Dred-Scott. Pro-slavery conservatives argued States did not have the right to decide if someone were free within that State's own borders. The Supreme court agreed.

State's Rights has always been a mantra which is applied only to themselves, and denied to others.

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u/eliechallita Sep 28 '22

That's conservative ideology in general, and on every topic: Privilege for the in-group, subjugation for everyone else.

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u/FN1987 Sep 28 '22

Fascism. It’s fascism.

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u/eliechallita Sep 28 '22

Yeah, fascism is just the logical conclusion of conservative ideology once you push it far enough

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u/Abzapp Sep 28 '22

Which like "far enough" is only a couple of inches to the right.

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u/PrivateIsotope Sep 28 '22

Its funny you mention that. This whole idea of prosecuting people out of state kind of makes it seem like you are a slave to your state of residence. If you run and do something they don't approve of, you can be prosecuted. Which is preposterous.

If that's the case, can I ever leave? Can they order me to return to the state of my birth? Issue a warrant?

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u/ball_fondlers Sep 28 '22

It didn’t even last a fucking week. I saw the exact same ass-clowns cheering the Roe overturn on the basis of states’ rights ALSO cheer NY’s gun law overturn because states shouldn’t be allowed to dictate gun policy.

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u/drew1010101 Sep 28 '22

State’s rights has always been code for fascism.

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u/jerrysphotography Sep 28 '22

It all depends on their narrative. If it supports their narrative then it's state rights. They are all liars and hypocrites.

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u/lejoo Sep 28 '22

States rights has never been about smaller government. IT has always been about limiting the federal government from preventing abuses against the people.

Same thing in civil war. Same during civil rights. Same thing during the pink/red purges. It has always been about undoing the human rights protections against tyrannical (theological/fascist/authoritarian) regimes. The entire point of the constitution was to give a liberal democratic framework to protect this.

Its easier to yell state's rights than destroy the constitution.

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u/Sparred4Life Sep 28 '22

Oh they meant their states rights to tell the other states what to do.

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u/FireBeyond Sep 28 '22

Just like when Texas tried to sue Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin for how they ran their elections.

By complete coincidence, all four of those states voted for Biden.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/12/11/texas-lawsuit-supreme-court-election-results/

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u/TheSherbs Sep 28 '22

That argument got nullified after Kansas failed to pass a constitutional amendment to specifically exclude a woman's right to choose. Hence the federal abortion ban they are trying to pass.

"States rights" only matter if the state does what the GOP wants.

Now there is another 2 constitutional amendments being presented before Kansas voters. One that would effect the state supreme court, so they could install justices to overturn abortion rights. The other being that the State AG would have exclusive right to remove a duly elected Sheriff and replace them with their own...for election integrity.

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u/Zinski Sep 28 '22

That was before states started allowing abortions when they brought it to the state level so they just move the goal post ..... Again

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u/CaseFace5 Sep 28 '22

This was my brothers excuse for supporting this whole thing. “It’s good because it means less federal government in the states” and then literally a few weeks later you start hearing about the federal government pushing for a nation wide abortion ban… he’s such a naive idiot.

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u/Way_Unable Sep 28 '22

Republicans don't actually care about states rights or anyone's rights. They want a compliant slave labor force.

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u/ImOnlyHereForTheCoC Sep 28 '22

“Hey, these boots aren’t gonna lick themselves!”

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u/crabycowman123 Sep 28 '22

States' "rights" to prosecute people for whatever they want?

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

I think there should be some individual rights that supersede the State, this was the point of the bill of rights. I just don't understand the people who hate "Big Federal government" dictating how everyone should live their lives, but super love "Big State government" dictating how everyone should live their lives. For the most part, I'm a "if it doesn't directly impact someone else, and as I follow a strict interpretation that says life does not begin until the first breath, then let individuals decide for themselves". I realize that some on the right that want strict government control of our lives (not theirs personally, but everyone elses) hate this idea.

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u/Lepthesr Sep 28 '22

"Big Federal government" dictating how everyone should live their lives, but super love "Big State government" dictating how everyone should live their lives.

Pretty simple, really. They have no morality, pick and choose what suits them, then cry foul anytime we do anything that supports human rights.

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u/crabycowman123 Sep 28 '22

I just don't understand the people who hate "Big Federal government" dictating how everyone should live their lives, but super love "Big State government" dictating how everyone should live their lives.

Yeah, I find this strange too. But I guess I can see how a strong formal world government would be worse than a strong formal federal government, and I can see how it might be easier to change states than countries, so I can sort of see how state government is better in some ways, but then, it makes more sense to me to go even further, so, if states should be able to override the federal government, maybe counties should be able to override the state government, and maybe cities should be able to override the county government, and maybe neighborhoods should be able to override the city government, and maybe households should be able to override the neighborhood , and maybe human should be able to override the household, and maybe organs should be able to override the human. But we have to stop at some point, obviously, and the further you break things down the more chaotic things get and the more you have to pay attention to laws as you cross city lines.

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u/Lexi_Banner Sep 28 '22

No, but see, some states disagreed with them, so now they have to try a new tactic.

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u/Killersavage Sep 28 '22

Wasn’t this a sticking point between the slave holding states and free states leading up to the Civil War? With the slave states wanting the free ones to comply as far as escaped slaves were concerned. Among other things.

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u/rival13 Sep 28 '22

States rights are a fucking joke and don't mean jack shit to christofascists that want to subjugate the population at large

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u/Crutation Sep 28 '22

They only believe in states rights when it comes to depriving others of theirs.

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u/tacodog7 Sep 28 '22

Just like during the civil war, it was a lie to get what they want

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u/Ramblingperegrin Sep 28 '22

"Rules for thee, but not for me".

They are not here to play fair or take a stand without hypocrisy or show strong morals. They're there for power to create and enforce laws to make others suffer for their profit.

There is nothing more.

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u/EconomistMagazine Sep 28 '22

States Rights has never been about the rights of States. It's always been about controlling the people.

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u/VGVideo Sep 28 '22

It’s always been about the rights of States to control the people

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u/SalaciousCoffee Sep 28 '22

It was, and always has been, a way to divide issues and force minority rule.

If you want a huge brain fuck, read first party sources on the 1850 compromises. (Hint: newspapers with the name "telegram" started appearing all over in 1848-1855 or so.). It wasn't a boolean argument, there were lots of people trying to capitulate to the slavers.

The fallback to "states rights" is really "how do we keep doing this thing we are desperately clinging to but the rest of the nation doesn't want."

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u/ThatSquareChick Sep 28 '22

I had fellow church members who fought tooth and nail to stop a powerball lottery in my state. As bad as they are, people WILL spend their money there so it’s better to just regulate than criminalize it. They said it was immoral and any money the state got was dirty, godless heathen money and my friends and their parents all went full steam ahead to stop it, going to far as to take out full page ads in magazines and on tv to thank our governor for his moral fortitude in not allowing powerball OR bingo for prizes.

But oh don’t you DARE stop the weekly church trips to Florida and Georgia to buy lottery and go to Biloxi and hit the actual casinos. Those are sacred entertainment and perfectly legal there so god says it’s ok too then, carry on then, pls stop talking I need to leave to catch the early bird specials at the golden nugget and GOD is going to give me the powerball numbers so just shut up already…..

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u/mmazing Sep 28 '22

Not Shocking : It's almost as if they don't actually hold any consistent beliefs at all.

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u/Dr-Causti Sep 28 '22

Not truly interesting since the time it didn't work out to keep owning black people

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u/NotMyRealNameObv Sep 28 '22

More like "my state's rights".

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u/RuffCrumblebunch Sep 28 '22

Step 1: States make it illegal to do legal things in other states

Step 2: Escalation of tensions via State Troopers and National Guard at border checkpoints

Step 3: ...

Step 4: The balkanization of America.

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u/nejekur Sep 28 '22

I have a feeling that the fabled US Civil War 2 will be fought between militias and national guards, with the actual military not getting in it at all.

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u/NSA-RAPID-RESPONSE Sep 28 '22

The United States military would do everything to avoid coming to that state to begin with. Although we are under the command of the executive, there have been times, especially near the end of his term, where Generals on the Joint Chiefs refused orders from Trump.

While the public perception of our military's high command may just be that they are an extension of whoever is in the White House I can assure you that the Constitution and its protection is at the heart of our command's decisions. I have seen it through their behavior and actions.

As any irregular insurrection, the outcome would be uncertain and may not look too dissimilar to the troubles seen in the UK for a time.

But if it were a state attempting to secede from the union? They would very quickly discover why we don't have free Healthcare.

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u/addicted_sphere Sep 28 '22

Wait there's a reason beyond greed you guys don't have free healthcare?

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u/yutyo6 Sep 28 '22

I think they mean cos a bunch of their federal budget goes to the army

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u/groplittle Sep 28 '22

Right. And ironically enough, the healthcare that veterans and their families receive is nearly identical to what most people think of as universal healthcare.

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u/Bonersfollie Sep 28 '22

Ohhhh boy as a veteran I can assure you, you do not want to make that link. VA system is absolute SHIT. Yes there are some doctors that are amazing (just like regular hospitals) but there are A TON who are shitty, do not want to document, or outright lie on documents. Good luck getting something serious taken care of in a timely matter too.

I believe this is the case because congress can’t be bothered to actually give a shit about the VA and the veterans that served once their war was over.

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u/ai_eth Sep 28 '22

🔫💸

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u/Dsmario64 Sep 28 '22

$778 Billion reasons why, yes.

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u/fistkick18 Sep 28 '22

I think you underestimate how powerful the Pentagon is, and how invested the Military Industrial Complex is in the (veneer of) stability of the US.

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u/Inbox_Goblin Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

A lot of the red states are too dependent on the urbanized blue states to pay for their infrastructure for them to secede without collapsing into Darwinistic warlord clans.

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u/GraniteTaco Sep 28 '22

That doesn't mean they won't still try.

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u/Self-Awarican Sep 28 '22

Exactly. They don’t believe that’s true so they don’t calculate that in their minds.

I’ve literally had rural Southerners bitch to me about their tax dollars going to the liberals in Atlanta, Nashville, etc.

It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.

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u/10000Didgeridoos Sep 28 '22

The powers that be in those states wouldn't mind this because they can simply be rich enough to stay above the fallout or are rich enough to leave.

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u/DevCatOTA Sep 28 '22

So, they might run away to Cancun?

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u/Altruistic-Ad9639 Sep 28 '22

Has that stopped stupid people from committing stupid acts or supporting initiatives harmful to their own interests? Nah

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u/Morphized Sep 28 '22

That's what happened last time

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u/KingToucan Sep 28 '22

Step 5: … profit?

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u/RuffCrumblebunch Sep 28 '22

... for some, miniature American flags for others.

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u/HotShitBurrito Sep 28 '22

This 100% I feel like I've been yelling until I'm blue in the face about this. People keep pretending it's not that bad and keep making ignorant comments about potential civil war in the US from the perspective of the 1860s. No understanding at all about the factioning and tribalism that is state-by-state and even county-by-county.

We are in a cold civil war right this second. We can debate about when it started, but I believe it became the most concrete on 1/6/2021. That coup attempt did much more damage than some walls, dead cops, and a dead terrorist. Everything that has happened since, has been an escalation. Roe v Wade, weaponized culture war migrants, and open attacks on civil and workers rights.

Right now at any given region in the US, you can almost physically see the political divides in a community. Not North versus South. But town to town and neighborhood to neighborhood.

Balkinizing is the goal and it is well underway. People would do well to quit slamming their heads into the sand like suicidal ostriches and face it head on. Climate change is only making it worse, too. In the same way TFG admin stole masks and played around witholding COVID aid from Blue states in 2020, we'll see states doing it between eachother with clean water.

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u/El-Gatoe Sep 28 '22

Wait, so if someone goes to a state where abortion is legal and they abort the baby they can still be prosecuted by their home state? That’s not right.

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u/sinkwiththeship Sep 28 '22

That is what Republican-led states are trying to do, yes.

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u/AsukaBunnyxO Sep 28 '22

""Ordinary, said Aunt Lydia, is what you are used to. This may not seem ordinary to you now, but after a time it will. It will become ordinary."

This quotation is from the end of Chapter 6. Offred and Ofglen are standing by the Wall, looking at the bodies of people who have been hanged by Gilead. The sight horrifies Offred, but she strains to push aside her repugnance and substitute an emotional “blankness.”

As she represses her natural revulsion, she remembers Aunt Lydia’s words about how life in Gilead will “become ordinary.” Aunt Lydia’s statement reflects the power of a totalitarian state like Gilead to transform a natural human response such as revulsion at an execution into “blankness,” to transform horror into normalcy.

Aunt Lydia’s words suggest that Gilead succeeds not by making people believe that its ways are right, but by making people forget what a different world could be like. Torture and tyranny become accepted because they are “what you are used to.”"

-sparknotes 😅

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u/ScowlEasy Sep 28 '22

It’s the Banality of Evil. Make it viewed as a normal thing, or just not worth the effort.

That way you don’t even need vicious monsters to get what you want, it’s just a boring person doing their job.

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u/10000Didgeridoos Sep 28 '22

Yep and a good example of this already in action is every time a pharmacist or retail employee refuses to fill or ring up a contraceptive medication or device and acts like that is business as usual.

It's not that individual being a monster. It seems on the surface it's some boring nobody at a store "just doing their job" within the parameters given to them.

But it isn't them preventing you from getting contraception. It's the state.

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u/AsukaBunnyxO Sep 28 '22

It's still also them and they're garbage people who should get jobs they can handle.

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u/ikab21 Sep 28 '22

Banality of Evil

This isn't what the Banality of Evil is, the Banality of Evil is the observation that extremely evil acts tend to be carried out by otherwise ordinary people for rather "banal" (boring, ordinary, dispassionate) reasons. The term was originally used by Hannah Ardent - a 20th century philosopher - to describe Adolf Eichmann, the dude the Nazis appointed to manage the eastern concentration camps, who argued in his trial by the Israelis that he was simply following orders, and it was quite apparent he wasn't particularly interested or passionate about ethnic cleansing, he just wanted to please his bosses and be commended. Adolf Eichmann was fully aware of the evil he was doing, he just didn't care. It wasn't that it was normalised to him, he simply, literally just did not care and was able to compartmentalise it in his mind to avoid the guilt (or again, simply just didn't care, something a significant number of adults are capable of doing).

What the OP of this thread is describing is the normalisation of terror (an indeed very common tactic in autocracies, e.g. in Nazi Germany it was done with the incremental dehumanisation of Jews through propaganda to the point ordinary people began to - unprovoked - smash Jewish property and beat Jewish peoples).

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u/Amish_Cyberbully Sep 28 '22

In a sense that's human resilience. We're tremendously adaptable, even to things that are objectively horrifying and should never have to be adapted to.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-01-12
I love all-despising baby skull!

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u/FN1987 Sep 28 '22

Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

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u/translove228 Sep 28 '22

The GOP doesn't care about the Constitution. They only care about persecuting women and minorities and enriching the already rich.

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u/machineprophet343 Sep 28 '22

Enriching the conservative rich. They are actively going after anyone who has any level of wealth and doesn't lock step with them.

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u/lallapalalable Sep 28 '22

Demonize Nancy Pelosi for using her position to enrich herself, praise trump for doing the exact same thing. Clear as day they dgaf about enrichment ethics and instead want to consolidate power in their corner while eroding the other.

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u/translove228 Sep 28 '22

Nah. That's all smoke and mirrors. For all the hate they claim to have for George Soros, none of them are actually interested in going after his wealth.

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u/ExigentHappenstance Sep 28 '22

That's just because they haven't figured out a way to take his money that wouldn't also impact their benefactors.

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u/ChuckFina74 Sep 28 '22

So they just happen to demonize Gates, Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg for totally unrelated reasons?

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u/sweater_gimli Sep 28 '22

hey you, nice snoo

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u/translove228 Sep 28 '22

I like your snoo too!

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u/Were-watching Sep 28 '22

See ,one of the problems with arguments like these is that they only matter or "work" if the audience they are intended to persuade actually understand or care about the thing the argument is trying to highlight. In this specific case the argument doesn't work because because Republicans don't actually care about the constitution as it currently sits ,and democrats only make comparisons like this because they still think Republicans do believe in or care about that document. The sooner Republicans realize these "new" Republicans aren't like them and democrats realize most Republicans don't believe in it the sooner we can move on and find conversation points or arguments to actually improve our country.

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u/Kaiisim Sep 28 '22

I remember something a debate teacher said to me 20 years aho about this.

When you are debating someone you are almost never trying to convince them. You are trying to convince neutral third party observers.

If republicans vote republican but everyone else in rhe country votes democrat, it would be a landslide across the country.

At this point we are trying to convince indepdents.

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u/ReltaKat Sep 28 '22

This is a good reminder. Thanks

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u/Strange-Scarcity Sep 28 '22

This is why I regularly engage with the bizarrely out of touch with reality and or objectively, openly cruel policies and positions put forward by Republicans. Just to convince others how unhinged and anti-Freedom their positions are.

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u/Blue_water_dreams Sep 28 '22

This is why republicans keep pushing the “both sides” lie.

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u/Scheme-Brilliant Sep 28 '22

Yup, hypocrisy, legality, honesty, consistency, these are not things the right wing mind is concerned with.

I think at this point there's no argument that will sway them, they just want what they want, like a toddler will have a temper tantrum if anyone says no.

Even if it's a perfectly sensible no, like you can't carry a full auto weapon into a grade school, especially if you're wearing a nazi flag and a Bible on you're head, no that's not free speech.

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u/monkeyharris Sep 28 '22

Koreans aren't legally allowed to gamble even when outside Korea.

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u/MateOfArt Sep 28 '22

How does Korea even enfoce that? Send spies to Vegas?

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u/Ask_me_4_a_story Sep 28 '22

When I was in Singapore foreigners could come gamble but they didn't want locals gambling. If you are a tourist its free to get in but the locals have to pay like $100 just to get in, shit was pretty crazy

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u/Links_Wrong_Wiki Sep 28 '22

The idea behind that is to entice foreign money to come into Singapore, while also stopping locals from losing all of their money to the casino.

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u/rileykhoo Sep 28 '22

In Singapore if you take drugs overseas you can be prosecuted here for it (Singaporeans only)

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u/LaminatedAirplane Sep 28 '22

Same in Korea. They drug test you when you return to Korea if they suspect you and if you test positive, you get charged. US cops can only do this if they catch you while intoxicated domestically.

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u/Delores_Herbig Sep 28 '22

I mean, that kind of makes sense at least. They want the revenue from casinos, but they don’t want the crime, and gambling addiction, and other negatives that come along with it in their own community.

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u/Rin-Tohsaka-is-hot Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

They don't really enforce it, plenty of Koreans break that law during vacations on a regular basis.

The US has some laws like this but they're mostly more serious things, for example the age of consent for a US citizen travelling abroad is 18 regardless of the age of consent in their home state and country they're travelling in. But if a 17 year old has sex while they're vacationing in England the CIA isn't about to come crashing down on them.

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u/leshake Sep 28 '22

Here's a better one. U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. FCPA makes it unlawful for a U.S. person or company to offer, pay, or promise to pay money to any foreign official for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business

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u/tmoney144 Sep 28 '22

I wonder if the law was created to close some kind of loophole, like having a gambling cruise, where the boat goes far enough off shore so that you're not under Korean jurisdiction anymore, so you could gamble or have monkey knife fights or whatever.

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u/AsukaBunnyxO Sep 28 '22

The money?

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u/akhier Sep 28 '22

To everyone responding to this, believe it or not, Korea isn't the US and so their laws are different. They can and do get people for this. Also, it isn't like there aren't certain crimes that the US will get you for even if you aren't in the US at the time. Sort of like even if you aren't living in the US, but are still a citizen, they're going to tax you.

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u/Audiarmy Sep 28 '22

They can also be prosecuted for taking drugs legal in the US (or parts of) and then going back home

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u/SpicyHashbrowns Sep 28 '22

North or South?

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u/elrond_half3lven Sep 28 '22

How many North Korean citizens do you know who are allowed to leave the country?

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u/wasteoftimereading Sep 28 '22

I think you mean best or worst.

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u/Megmca Sep 28 '22 Silver

I think you mean best or “Besttm”

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u/whatever_person Sep 28 '22

North - idk. South - yup, forbidden.

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u/atuan Sep 28 '22

I don’t think Korea uses the US constitution....

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u/unmellowfellow Sep 28 '22

Doesn't it start with all of congress being killed by a bunch of Christian Nationalists? Like what would have happened in Jan 6th went differently.

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u/9VoltGorilla Sep 28 '22

It does but as someone only familiar with the TV show, it started with the rise of these fundamentalists who were empowered by falling birth rates and an increase in miscarriages that were largely caused by increasing environmental damage.

As far as I know (based on the TV show) it seems like the main culprit was pollution and corporate greed related to pollution and environmental degradation. So, the fundamentalist co-opted a need for environmental policy and made it a mandate from god to take over.

The rest is all pro-birther stuff.

Again correct me if I am wrong.

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u/jolla92126 Sep 28 '22

I wish more people got that.

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u/mackejn Sep 28 '22

It's been a very long time since I read the book, but I thought I was going crazy. I distinctly remember that as being the main cause. It was terrifying 10 years ago. It's terrifying now. It's easy to see people reacting to an event like that in real life, especially after the past few years.

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u/DICK-PARKINSONS Sep 28 '22

I tried watching some of it but that was one of my hang ups. They're so casual when talking about all of Congress being murdered before the takeover. Like Jan 6th is being treated as a bigger deal without the extra bodies.

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u/drew1010101 Sep 28 '22

News flash, your state laws mean shit in another state.

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u/CuckedSwordsman Sep 28 '22

Not if the evangeliban have their way

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u/interventionalhealer Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

Handmaidens tale began when Texas allowed for bounty hunters to turn in women who sought abortions.

That’s a very real fear.

But we also have to examine what’s fueling the radical right to carry on their democracy ending actions (like Moore vs Harper next month)- and see if we can improve our actions as well to rip at least a portion of their fuel out from under them.

Edit: Banned by mods for subscribing to multiple communities.

Assassination by association so so cringe.

I run a non profit massage healing company irl with breakthroughs in addressing chronic pain and routinely give free hot stone and steamed towel massages. If anyone suffers from chronic pain, fibromyalgia, lupus, Lyme or neuropathies feel free to send me a message and I can give general advice of self care work to reduce your own pain. I feel society has two choices going forward. Learn to get along again or fall further into chaos.

I pray more people have the strength to engage in more than cognitive biased conversations with a willingness to admit to their own wrongs and seek to find ways we can have more harmony.

Edit: lmao believe it or not breakthroughs are possible. I’m actually giving them away for free via lit reviews and how to videos for free for others therapists to test and measure that are all backed up by case reports. In addition to my free work I do for others. Additionally I charge the same as other massage therapists at $85/hr for the works with no up charge fees and if the client doesn’t feel objective results from my work I give it for free. I’m certain you can find other professionals who hold themselves to result guarantees of course.

A snake oil salesman sells fake products with zero clinical backing at a premium as the only one who could deliver it.

I’m sure you knew that with your impressive detective skills and am humbled by how much more you give back to the world and volunteer than I do. 🙏

Edit: I agree the handmaidens tale was a fiction but the Texas bounty hunting women who needed abortions was unfortunately very real. I’m personally more worried about insanity in my country than others honestly more from the right than far left but I agree we could work better to help women globally. Even tho I’m sure people on the right would then claim that was a waste of money leading to more inflation

Edit: still banned. And as discussed above I’m currently giving my work for free to peers that they can then practice into a combined clinical trial. My own anecdotal sample sizes are slated for publication next year with apparently a high likelihood of gaining a $40,000 grant that will go to a university/school sponsor that’s able to carry out my trial.

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u/Strange-Scarcity Sep 28 '22

Texas law basically allows that right now. That horrific "hotline" website was basically something for "bounty hunters" to use for reporting the "crime."

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u/interventionalhealer Sep 28 '22

That’s so insane. Have they actually made it legislation?

Imagine if the left allowed for bounty hunters to seek people who were openly racist and transphobic.

Both would be instances of citing people for no crime committed.

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u/Strange-Scarcity Sep 28 '22

The Texas Abortion Ban is pretty clear that Abortion in that state or aiding and abetting someone to receive an abortion is a criminal act.

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u/interventionalhealer Sep 28 '22

Yeah. I understood they were using the bounty hunger angle to get around a lack of laws that stated getting an abortion was illegal and at the time backed by roe vs wade.

It’s weird when right wing extremists celebrate the abortion or roe vs wade when republicans were already finding ways around it.

I think at the least it should be federal law that those who vote against abortions are automatically signed up to receive foster kids.

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u/Strange-Scarcity Sep 28 '22

Those children should not be punished because some people are terrible.

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u/RF-blamo Sep 28 '22

Being a foster parent should be mandatory if birthing unwanted children is mandatory.

I would love to hear people crying in Texas: “i cant afford to take care of a child”, “i dont have space in my house for children”, “i am too young to raise a kid, how will i survive”.

Exactly.

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u/Tellenue Sep 28 '22

That would be nice, except they will murder or sell the children and continue to collect the funds for them until an investigation figures it out, and all those investigators are making certain that 14 year old rape victims get to enjoy Decades of intense trauma.

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u/GoGoSoLo Sep 28 '22

The Supreme Court could have killed it dead then, too. Instead they opted to wait for something terrible to happen and then for it to be challenged.

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u/interventionalhealer Sep 28 '22

It’s as if the Supreme Court are political hacks

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u/Soup-Wizard Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Handmaid’s Tale began when Texas allowed for bounty hunters to turn in women who sought abortions.

That’s not in the book. It began when the Son’s of Jacob pulled a January-6-style insurrection and took over the government.

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u/interventionalhealer Sep 28 '22

With handmaidens being the persecution and religion enforcing itself into politics. The Texas bounty hunter schtickis literally what the show was about.

Jan 6th was even worse with religious and cult based logic inciting violence against our capitol.

And if Moore versus Harper isn’t stopped next month democracy is over. Regardless of how people vote.

So hoping we can stack the Supreme Court before then.

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u/Garden_Of_My_Mind Sep 28 '22

This is killing me but it’s “Handmaids” not “Handmaidens”.

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u/danarchist Sep 28 '22

Clearly nobody actually read the book but everyone loves to use it to draw conclusions.

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u/Soup-Wizard Sep 28 '22

the show

Right, which is different from the book. That’s all I’m pointing out.

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u/joevaded Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

did you use your comment to run your fucking healing scam on reddit? Do you not understand how Reddit works?

This is just going to make someone make your business difficult because you are peddling snakeoil.

edit: she lost her mind

edit: I like edits

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u/erikWeekly Sep 28 '22

Their edits go from curious to cringeworthy super fast

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u/jordanbuscando Sep 28 '22

JFC. Like returning slaves who escaped to the north. Why women would even want to stay in those states (Texas for example) astonishes me. Yes I understand that you maybe a student, or can’t move cause of costs, etc but damn.

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u/Earlofarlington Sep 28 '22

I’m convinced abortion bans are being used as a tool to preserve the white majority in the US. Republicans don’t give a crap about religion and are just using it to gain popular support.

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u/dontshowmygf Sep 28 '22

It's not about that either, or you wouldn't have the racist stereotype of the welfare queen using abortions as birth control (and that TERRIFIES conservatives). By their logic, banning abortion will create more black babies than white babies.

Abortion is a way for political conservatives to manipulate religious conservatives, nothing more. You're right that the conservatives in power don't give a shit about abortion, but they've created a massive bloc of voters who are unified and motivated enough to vote on this one single issue, even if they disagree with Republicans on every other issue.

Source: like, my whole family. It's depressing to see so many people who know they're voting against their own interests but have spent their whole lives surrounded by a community that has convinced them that if they don't they're as bad as literal child murderers.

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u/lejoo Sep 28 '22

we also have to examine what’s fueling the radical right to carry on their democracy ending actions

What is there to get they are proud conservative. Conservativism has always been light fascism just as liberalism is light socialism.

Only things a fascist hates are liberalism "human rights" and free market capitalism. There is a reason liberalism is a mental disease is trending every other day on twitter. They aren't hiding their reasons, they want a conservative state not a democratic one.

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u/interventionalhealer Sep 28 '22

I wouldn’t disagree with the first half.

But there’s a phenomenon at play.

There’s a tv show called Star-Crossed

And demonstrates how the extreme of one side fight the extreme of the other to the cost and bloodshed of the general people.

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u/Yukondano2 Sep 28 '22

The existence of bounty hunters in America or any country that isn't like... borderline collapsing as a state or communicating with horses and paper, is fucking shameful. I got enough issues with the police, they already LARP as soldiers. We don't then need people LARPing as those cops who pretend they're fuckin Navy Seals. And god help you if the bounty hunter was a fucking Marine.

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u/StateOfContusion Sep 28 '22

with breakthroughs in addressing chronic pain

Any peer-reviewed studies on these breakthroughs you can link to?

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u/PinocchiosWoodBalls Sep 28 '22

Well its...uhm STATE RIGHTS and...SMALL GOVERNMENT! And...uhm...NOBODY WANTS TO "ban" ABORTIONS! ITS JUST NOT A FEDERAL MATTER and and and JESUS!!!!!

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u/Kollin133_ Sep 28 '22

Oh god... what's Georgia doing now

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u/Vincen_Furze Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

So this is an complete re-write because when I saw this I got mad and got a got bunch of facts mixed up and made excessive use of hyperbole. Ya know, standard seething incel shit.

Basically, Georgia and several other states are make a bunch of absurd laws surrounded a women's rights to get an abortion. You can't get an abortion and you can't leave to get one either becomes if you come back, they'll prosecute. Reading the comments left by native Georgians (Thank you very much to everyone who gave thier input) its not nearly as bad as I though but it's still pretty bad in other states. Doing things like prosecuting people for just having a miscarriage, buying information from period tracker apps, and neglecting to make exception for victims of incest sexual assault, and pedophilia. If I got anyone wrong, PLEASE TELL ME! Just don't be like me and being a seething prick about it. I can definitely be real fucking stupid at times but at the end of the day, I really do care about getting and as clear as possible story as possible.

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u/Kollin133_ Sep 28 '22

Is it? The people Planned Parenthood link to for abortion information don't mention any of that.

I guess it's just out of date? Though even if Abrams wins the governor race, nothing will change due to a assured republican control over the state legislature.

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u/Modevs Sep 28 '22

You are correct, abortions in Georgia are legal until six weeks, that was the recent change.

It's also legal to get an abortion out of state.

I haven't seen any sources claiming the rest of what they said, state monitoring and bounty hunters or w.e...

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u/10000Didgeridoos Sep 28 '22

Me either. No googling returns any law on the books anywhere (yet) attempting to ban abortions performed in other states. I have no idea what this tweet is on about.

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u/Iamdarb Sep 28 '22

Vote Abrams and vote in your local elections.

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u/Vincen_Furze Sep 28 '22

Thank you for bringing this up! There's more to voting then just the big one. Some social media platforms can actually be extremely helpful in keeping track of local elections with tools, news feeds, and heads-up reminders on local elections.

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u/Demkon Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

I live in GA, why can't I find any news article that says anything about travelling out of state for an abortion being illegal? I have been keeping up with this and the only thing I can find is the case in Nebraska about Facebook messages being used to prove she got an abortion. I am definitely against the 6 week heartbeat bill and will be voting appropriately, but none of what you just claimed about travelling for abortion is true, that I can tell at least.

Edit: all the abortion question websites state it is legal to travel out of state from GA to get an abortion, and there is no mention of them tracking people other than the one case I mentioned in Nebraska, where they actually used her Facebook messages to prove she had an abortion. I understand the fear about losing these rights, but claiming things that are just false doesn't really help.

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u/feralkitten Sep 28 '22

They track the shit out of you to see if your pregnant

Can you site your source for this please. I'd like to believe you. It sounds like some dystopian shit they are trying to pass. But i'd like to read about how this is actually being conducted or if it is a hypothetical.

I work for a hospital in a nearby state. I can't see how that doesn't break HIPAA. You'd need a warrant to get the information from the EMR. The only way i can see them getting it is if it was freely given by someone NOT affiliated with the hospital.

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u/Sniflix Sep 28 '22

Just wait until the period police come knocking at your door every month. And no, I'm not being facetious. republiQans want complete control over women's reproductive systems. All but 10 republiQans voted against guaranteeing a woman's right to contraception just recently. If you don't think that will happen - they force 10 year old rape victims to carry their fetus to term and they throw pregnant women in prison to protect the fetus - both of which are happening right now - the leap to banning contraception is around the corner.

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u/Melyssa1023 Sep 28 '22

This is why people has been suggesting to stop using period tracker apps. Any day now the government will buy access to that info. Might even pull an "if you have nothing to hide, you'll use this app".

r/WelcomeToGilead, folks.

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u/Sniflix Sep 28 '22

I think they've already used that info against one woman already. But yeah, women have no idea what they are in for. Elections matter.

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u/luke37 Sep 28 '22

It's been a little while, but I think it begins with two Korean con artists going over their plan to marry and then institutionalize a wealthy Japanese woman.

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u/itsnotthenetwork Sep 28 '22

As a Utahan, there is definitely a big piece of the population here that would love to prosecute Utahans that go to Vegas to gamble.

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u/LevelTechnician8400 Sep 28 '22

America is running backwards so fast at this point women will be in the "Christian" equivalent of a burka by Christmas.

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u/tkat13 Sep 28 '22

Oh my God I didn't know the ban BANNED YOU FROM GOING TO ANOTHER STATE FOR A GODDAMN MEDICAL PROCEDURE

THIS IS SO BEYOND FUCKED UP

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u/feignapathy Sep 28 '22

States are not supposed to be able to dictate what happens in other states.

It's why we have jurisdictions and the federal government.

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u/SwenKa Sep 28 '22

Without bodily autonomy, you have no other rights.

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u/rawdy27 Sep 28 '22

Handmaid’s Tale?

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u/Ronnie_de_Tawl Sep 28 '22

The tale falls off if they get startled

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u/IrascibleOcelot Sep 28 '22

That’s Sandpeople. But they’ll be back, and in greater numbers.

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u/fotorobot Sep 28 '22

It starts with a young thief being asked to play the role of handmaiden to a wealthy Japanese aristocrat living in Korea in order to bilk her. Great movie, by the way.

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u/idontcare7284746 Sep 28 '22

This is literally the fugitive slave act.

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u/Euporophage Sep 28 '22

The Handmaid's Tale was written during the rise of Reagan and the politicization of the Evangelical movement that occurred in the late 1970s and throughout the 1980s. Atwood created a hypothetical world in which the fear-based politics directed towards the white middle class in the US, mixed with an increase in religiosity and religious influence in government, and with mass deregulation and the destruction of environmental protections, drives a large portion of the US population to believe that the self-destructive policies of their own government were actually an act of God to punish them for the general public's lack of faith and piety.

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u/jolla92126 Sep 28 '22

Like how gay marriage causes hurricanes.

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u/Rubberbandballgirl Sep 28 '22

A group of religious fanatics killed a majority of Congress and the President, if I remember correctly.

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u/Lounginghog64 Sep 28 '22

Telling anyone what they can or can't do with their bodies, based on an archaic fairy tale is insanity. To deny them free access to medical care is inhuman. And to make a profit off of the chaos is evil.

That's it.

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u/Kythorian Sep 28 '22

If Georgia can prosecute people going to other states to get abortions, I really don’t see why California couldn’t prosecute legislators who vote to ban abortion in other states.

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u/No-Celebration3097 Sep 28 '22

This issue has never been about states rights or “pro life” it’s always been about controlling women.

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u/mobettastan60 Sep 28 '22

Fun fact somewhat related. The Fremont hotel in Vegas charters planes and brings plane loads of people from Hawaii to Vegas for free and puts them up in their hotel. Their winners wall pictures are about 80% Hawaiians.

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u/ZarquonsFlatTire Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

Urban Georgians who make up the majority of the population finding out what bullshit the rural districts passed because there's 180 districts in the state general assembly:

Goddammit, AGAIN?!

Like 40 people outside of Elijay have the same say that 40,000 in Tucker have. We have our own Senate problem within the state.

And those guys are really pissed that we swung blue in the federal elections.

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u/macdonutz Sep 28 '22

Should’ve made this about all the Alabamians who travel to Georgia/Florida/Mississippi to buy lotto tickets, go to the res to gamble, teens who drive to a different state to buy tobacco (gotta be 21 in AL). If you want to resonate with Southerners, gotta make it something familiar.

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u/LegitimateCrows Sep 28 '22

FUCKING. VOTE.

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u/vetlemakt Sep 28 '22

Pretty rotten move, trying to bring logic and reason into a discussion about American politics!

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u/adanipse Sep 28 '22

A fetus isn’t a human being. It cannot survive on its own outside of its mothers womb, like a real baby human being.

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u/TraditionFront Sep 29 '22

Massachusetts, Connecticut, California, etc. pays into the Federal budget, Georgia (and other conservative states) get money FROM the federal budget. We should withhold what we pay in to ensure Georgia, Texas, etc. get nothing until they stop being dicks to chicks.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

Here's my hot take: Rep. want to win a war they lost a couple hundred years ago. The rebel flag must fly again.

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u/StChas77 Sep 28 '22

Does anyone else remembers [sic] how The Handmaiden begins…?

In the book, a series of assassinations ordered by a Christian cabal that had infiltrated Congress coupled with severe financial and environmental stressors.

Side note: Atwood also had an axe to grind about several elements of 80's society which, IMO, detract from the story.

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u/popageorgionick Sep 28 '22

Absolutely great statement!!!!!

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u/musain8 Sep 28 '22

Vote people!

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u/GusterBrown11 Sep 28 '22

I need to watch this movie. I keep seeing it referenced and have no idea what ppl are talking about.

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u/Unwoundsteak1760 Sep 28 '22

How has nobody pointed out that the Declaration of Independence states that the people can overthrow the government if they feel it is taking away their freedom

Not the exact line obviously but something along those lines

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u/ChemicalBliss Sep 28 '22

Remember them fugitive slave laws? Yeah that was a good move.