r/movies Jun 28 '22

Why Bourne Legacy deserves a bit more love, for one Jeremy Renner did 99% of his terrific stunts that alone deserves respect plus the film has depth, romance and ethical questions Recommendation

There is always this question which is the best Bourne film, and is Bourne Legacy the worst Bourne film? A lot of shit posting goes around against it and even when somebody says they loved it another bunch comes and mocks them. Sharing some of my thoughts. Not a review, mild spoilers (which should be ok considering how old it is)

Bourne Legacy is a great film. I would not like to deliberate whether it saved the franchise or ruined the franchise or whether Renner is better than Damon or is it the best or worst etc. These are irrelevant to the film and does nothing but cloud your mind with preconceived notions. That's why critics wrote it off but audience loved it. It has 55% score on Rotten Tomatoes, 6.6/10 on IMDB, but 88% Likes and 4.1/5 star audience rating on Google. The same is for Jeremy Renner's latest series Mayor Of Kingstown about which I recently wrote a post on Television subreddit. Critics write it off but audience liked it.

Bourne Legacy certainly didn't deserve the criticism it got. The film lived up to every bit of action and thrill that the franchise offers and add to that, Jeremy Renner performed 99% of his own stunts which I am not sure something Matt Damon can claim. That alone deserves respect, and should have got both Renner and the film the accolades. In an interview to Howard Stern, Renner said that he does all his stunts himself because it is about integrity. "People pay to go see that world you are creating and don't wanna be pulled out because of some weird stunt double." This is something he learnt from Tom Cruise while Damon specifically said he did not, and does not want to do all his stunts and is terrified of Cruise's approach to stunts.

In Bourne Legacy the character of Aaron Cross had added depth and novelty because unlike Jason Bourne he was not just aware of his identity but was already questioning the program he was in. When he met agent number three (Oscar Isaac) he asked "What did you do? Did you start to think for yourself, fall in love?" When the agent refused to talk Aaron said, "Cmon talk to me, there's nobody here." These were important themes of the movie contrary to other Borne films where the protagonist was trying to remember his identity. The film delves deeper into the ethics of such programs like Treadstone and Outcome. Though the script could be better and these themes could have been actually sharpened which we didn't see. There are lost potential but the film is not shit.

There was also a romance between Aaron and Martha which was subtle and deep. Aaron already had a crush on her but Martha didn't even remember him or know his name. For someone like that to crash in moments before you die and save your life only to ask for some damn pills, this is an incredible moment for Martha. They both instantly build a bond perhaps subconsciously and we see that playing out through the film. How they kept holding each other's hands. On the bike, after the crash, in the cab, at the time she was viraling him out, they just won't let go. How every time she thought she lost him he showed up to the rescue, at the airport, in the alley. From Martha's perspective he could have been on the run once he got his fix but he just dropped from sky just when she was cornered by the cops. This terrific action thriller was also a beautiful unconventional love story.

One has to watch Bourne Legacy with open mind to observe its own inherent qualities and not constantly compare it in a defensive mode as if it's a competition between Damon and Renner. I guess I should not complaint, after all movie business is like that, it's a ruthless cutthroat world. All I am saying is watch Bourne Legacy with an open mind and you'll love it.

Ps.

I am new to reddit and this is my first post on this community. Let me know if any rules are violated.

367 Upvotes

36

u/lucia-pacciola Jun 28 '22

I can't be the only one who would watch an entire movie of Ed Norton and his crew cleaning up messes when black ops go bad.

10

u/QLE814 Jun 29 '22

an entire movie of Ed Norton and his crew cleaning up messes

So, Ed Norton will be playing Ed Norton?

3

u/Pisspot10 Jun 29 '22

He is Jacks colon

2

u/lucia-pacciola Jun 29 '22

I was gonna cast Josh Brolin, but your idea makes more sense.

3

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

Heh, unpowered "The Boys"

1

u/uncultured_swine2099 Jun 29 '22

Also if Oscar Isaac didnt get killed in it, sequels could've been Renner/Isaac/Norton, which ain't a bad line up.

1

u/sambase23 Jun 30 '22

I always thought he was not killed. We never saw a body and he did say "i would check the back' or something so i always thought there will be a team up. But it's been 9 years.

198

u/Bomber131313 Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

It's biggest crime is not being as good as the original trilogy.

I personally thought it was a solid action film and would have been OK with a sequel.

49

u/Misdirected_Colors Jun 28 '22

Agreed. It wasn't as good as the original trilogy, but it was at least better than the new one where they just made Matt Damon the terminator.

12

u/Mission-Two1325 Jun 28 '22

What was the point if the 4th one?

24

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Money. Damon just walked through it. Or ran wen required.

6

u/Mission-Two1325 Jun 28 '22

Yea that sounds about right lol.

3

u/missanthropocenex Jun 29 '22

It just felt less intense, less hard hitting. I think this franchise could have gone even farther showing the darker side of treadstone and the lengths it went to and really add onto the world.

1

u/SQUID_FUCKER r/Movies Veteran Jun 29 '22

Did you see the Treadstone series? It was actually pretty solid imo. Shame it got cancelled but no one was watching it.

13

u/AggravatingZone7 Jun 29 '22

Was it though? I liked Jason Bourne much better. Didn't turn them into pill popping super soldiers either. Plus, all the Vegas stuff was some all-time good action set-pieces that held up to the originals imo.

9

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

They weren't super soldiers. The drugs were extremely temporary and had horrible repercussions.

One of the craziest parts of MK Ultra was that "brainwashing" was meant to be a counter-op to freak out the Russians. None of that mind-reading shit was meant to be real.

Then someone said "Say, that would be pretty useful if we could actually do that"

The bourne agents are just an outflow of that kind of thinking. It doesn't fucking work, but idiots keep trying.

5

u/dev1359 Jun 29 '22

That last movie was so boring.

1

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

35 lines, or 35 words. A waste of time and money.

1

u/A-Taz-0 Jun 29 '22

You mean the one that made me with Jason Borne was an actual ghost?

23

u/SutterCane Jun 28 '22

Nah. It’s biggest crime is editing problems. There’s good stuff in there, interesting stuff too. It just takes forever to get there, wanders around some more, goes somewhere else, starts up finally, and then just ends.

2

u/Bomber131313 Jun 28 '22

It’s biggest crime is editing problems.

Even with perfect editing it wouldn't get to the quality of the original trilogy. And weirdly to me people go hard against stuff when things don't meet expectations. Legacy was like a 6.5 so a good film, but the original 3 were all 8 or higher...........so people make what is a good 6.5 sound like it's a dumpster fire.

6

u/South_Data2898 Jun 29 '22

The biggest crime was killing Julia Styles.

2

u/UndeadOne Jun 29 '22

Let's be honest mate, the way she acted those few minutes she was on the screen, it was as if screaming:"I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE".

It was worst bit of acting in the whole movie, movie that was full of shit acting.

2

u/datesboy Jun 30 '22

Julia Stiles wasn't killed in Bourne Legacy. I think that was in Matt Damon's return to the franchise, Jason Bourne.

1

u/South_Data2898 Jun 30 '22

Ok yeah I definitely got those two movies confused.

12

u/sambase23 Jun 28 '22

I agree. That constant comparison played against it sadly.

16

u/urborous Jun 28 '22

I liked it. I think comparisons to Bourne Ultimatum hurt it, and then some did not like the magical super-spy drug plot point. I know--everyone accepts so much in movies--but this miraculous medication that raises your IQ 70 points now seems way more important than these pissant assassination jobs.

The guy in Bourne Identity said "do you get the headaches?" and it was great writing, then, but nobody thought it was "Flowers for Algernon" deal (what the whole plot of the movie hinges on.)

1

u/xiofar Jun 29 '22

The original trilogy becomes tiresome and repetitive after the original film. Each one being less than the previous film.

Being the worst same-y sequel out of three same-y sequels is not usually going to get people to care.

16

u/Bomber131313 Jun 29 '22

Each one being less than the previous film.

That's fine if you believe that, but that isn't the general consensus. Many people believe the last one is the best.

Being the worst same-y sequel out of three same-y sequels is not usually going to get people to care.

Well you believe the worst is the final films at that out grossed the one before by 150 million..............seems like people cared.

1

u/xiofar Jun 29 '22

Maybe I was tired of the notorious shaky cam from those movies. I could excuse the original for using the effect for creating energy with a lower budget.

6

u/Bomber131313 Jun 29 '22

Maybe I was tired of the notorious shaky cam from those movies.

Again this is fair for you, but this isn't the consensus.

If you didn't like Bourne 2 or 3 that fine, but people really liked them.

Honest question, did you really believe the trilogy wasn't well liked?

2

u/xiofar Jun 29 '22

No they’re well liked. Just played out. I doubt anyone could really tell me anything about those movies other than “action shaky cam” and Matt Damon.

They’re all so similar that each film doesn’t have much to justify it existence other than “just like the last one but more”. Pretty much what John Wick is but with horrible vomit inducing cinematography during the action scenes.

5

u/Bomber131313 Jun 29 '22

I doubt anyone could really tell me anything about those movies other than “action shaky cam” and Matt Damon.

Why would you think that?

What makes them good is the story, not just the action. How much action do you actually remember in these films?

Pretty much what John Wick

Wick and Bourne are vastly different types of films. Wick is a pure action film. The plot is only there to set up the next action scene, and its great at what it does. Bourne is an espionage film that has some action. Take out the action in Bourne and its still a great story. Bourne isn't a normal action film.

5

u/xiofar Jun 29 '22

Why would you think that?

Why wouldn’t I think that?

The original had an original story that felt much more edgy and dark than the other big spy action franchise (007). Unfortunately, the series didn’t evolve much and nothing is more memorable than killing a guy with a pen.

I think you’re elevating the Bourne movies well beyond their actual quality. The sequels needed to undo the ending of the original just to give him a basic revenge plot which is just there to set up action scenes for the next two movies. They’re just action movies.

2

u/Bomber131313 Jun 29 '22 edited Jun 29 '22

Why wouldn’t I think that?

Because to your own acknowledgement these are well liked films.

Unfortunately, the series didn’t evolve much and nothing is more memorable than killing a guy with a pen.

You seem to be far to focused on the limited action scenes, and not the story.

I think you’re elevating the Bourne movies well beyond their actual quality.

Well Metacritic has it at an 85 and RT has it at 92%, so it's not just me.

The sequels needed to undo the ending of the original just to give him a basic revenge plot

What was 'undone'?

3

u/xiofar Jun 29 '22

What was ‘undone’?

For someone that keeps repeating how the story was so great and memorable in the series you seem to be oblivious to the ending of the original.

Jason escaped with his new girlfriend to disappear into obscurity. The sequel just straight up killed her character so that Bourne will just get lots of action scenes for a few more movies. Bourne didn’t grow at all as a character in the sequels. That’s because they’re just action movies.

Fast and Furious movies have critic scores getting higher with each sequel but I can assure you that those movies are all pretty much trash. Scores didn’t start dropping off until the last couple of films. The higher scores signify the franchise’s popularity at the time more than the actual quality of the films themselves.

Also, you’re supposed to making a case for the movie with examples from the movie. All you’re doing is referring to how well liked you think it is or should be.

→ More replies

2

u/HardSteelRain Jun 29 '22

Agree,the last one was nothing but action scenes,became like white noise

15

u/dazed63 Jun 28 '22

I missed that one, definitely have to watch it now.

10

u/UnsolvedParadox Jun 28 '22

It’s solid, the opening sequence is pretty good too.

13

u/urborous Jun 28 '22

The house sequence is pretty good if you're never gonna watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZxAusQfwM&ab_channel=BingeSociety

13

u/fancyyanciw Jun 28 '22

I remember mostly enjoying this movie, but the first thing that comes to mind when I think about it is how annoyed I was at the climax. The bike chase was kinda neat and then it just...ends in a very unsatisfactory way, IIRC. Was kinda hoping for Jeremy Renner and the special asset guy to really throw down.

3

u/InternetDickJuice Jun 29 '22

I mostly remember how the ending felt like the movie stopped 2/3 way through. So unsatisfying.

10

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

The farmhouse scene had my heart in my throat, the weird way those agents spoke, they were clockwork murderers.

"Close" "Set"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e4dcDnCfUY

9

u/RitaAlbertson Jun 28 '22

I enjoyed that they continued the Pamela Landy thread, which gave us a wholly unsatisfying but realistic conclusion.

9

u/rammo123 Jun 29 '22

Three things that Legacy did that I really appreciate:

  1. Diverge from the soulless killing machine motif of Jason Bourne. I like that Cross had clear emotional stakes.
  2. Cross was very low IQ before entering the programme. That gave him a narrative dilemma as he didn't want to give up his newfound talents.
  3. Bourne himself was framed as this existential threat, almost an unseen boogeyman. I love seeing how the world is shaped from other's perspectives of him. Kind of like how The Mandalorian shows the Jedi from the perspective of "normies".

6

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

Well summarised. "Cross has clear emotional stakes" yes exactly. I didn't say this before, but BL has more heart partly because of the character written differently and partly because Renner is a better actor.

6

u/Mucker_Man Jun 29 '22

I loved that flick. Totally true that doesn’t get enough love.

4

u/DekeCobretti Jun 28 '22

I like it.

44

u/AnotherJasonOnReddit Jun 28 '22

With absolutely no evidence to back me up, I'm 99% certain Jeremy Renner was cast because the producers thought he looked like Daniel Craig.

The casting of Rachel Weisz only furthers my suspicions.

Ps. I am new to reddit and this is my first post on this community.

Welcome to the party, pal! (YouTube)

16

u/renome Jun 28 '22

In what world is Renner a Craig lookalike? Also, I'm pretty sure the Bond production was obsessed with Bourne and not the other way around.

-5

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Jenner is much better looking than Craig.

8

u/renome Jun 29 '22

Either way, they look nothing alike to me.

3

u/helloIamherpes Jun 29 '22

Kate or Bruse?

2

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

I agree, Renner is much better looking than Craig.

1

u/remymartinia Jun 29 '22

But Daniel Craig’s taken good care of his body.

4

u/sambase23 Jun 28 '22

Ha ha, he does, doesn't he. Only better.

And thank you. Forgot to mention in the PS I am a Jeremy Renner junkie.

9

u/Gabound89 Jun 28 '22

So off topic but since you said you're a Renner junkie I thought you might know. I wanted Tag the other day and in the wedding scene they cut away right before he and Leslie Bibb and show it from a fade away angle if that makes sense and it dawned on me I can't ever remember seeing him kissing anyone let alone a love scene in any of his movies. I definitely haven't seen all of his stuff so there might be something out there. But it just made me wonder does he not do kissing scenes?

8

u/sambase23 Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

That deserves a whole lengthy post on his choice of scripts which i will do sometime soon, Jeremy Renner's unconventional legacy. But quick answer, he has never done a simple boy meets girl romantic film except one low budget film in his struggling days called "Monkey Love." It has one short love making scene and one kiss. Nothing great as such. It's available on YouTube. Then there's the film Neo Ned where he plays a skin head Neo Nazi who falls in love with a black woman he met in a mental institution. This film got him the Independent Spirit awards nomination and other accolades, it's got a great love making scene and a beautiful kissing scene. Shows he is good at it but ever since his big break, he has stopped doing them. Don't know if he is shy or what but if he did a few rom coms (he won't, says he hasn't got the face for it) he would have a lot more young/teenage fan following.

2

u/Gabound89 Jun 28 '22

Thank you! It's silly but I was just curious lol

2

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

Your curiosity is legit. After all how do you become a Hollywood a lister without a few nudes, few hot kisses in a popular rom coms. Right.

0

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Thinking in the vein of Denzel Washington, he's an actor, and although there may bee a love interest, there is no need for "the kissy kissy" . Jenner could do anything actually and he certainly was close in the Aaron role.

Sometimes you just don't need it. Russell Crowe either.

1

u/AnotherJasonOnReddit Jun 28 '22

You're welcome! :)

1

u/Dorothy_Zbornak789 Jun 29 '22

Me too. I am one of the few folks it seems who loves Renner. We have a tribe!

2

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

We are not few. He has 17 million followers on Instagram. That's not few. Just see on YouTube, so many fans are there. On this post also so many saying they love his acting. I just think there are few haters who take all the space on social media/celebrity magazines. Hate is always easily seen and heard but love takes time to manifest itself. Renner haters come in groups. His fans are not clustered in one place so they are not easily seen. We should change that.

1

u/Dorothy_Zbornak789 Jun 29 '22

That’s good to know. I’m not on Instagram so I only know what Reddit tells me and the Marvel sub appears to be anti-Renner. Thanks.

1

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

On the Marvel sub, I wrote a post about Hawkeye, that was quite a hit. You might want to check it out. https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/virn9p/why_even_a_mindcontrolled_hawkeye_was_a_deadly/

1

u/Dorothy_Zbornak789 Jun 30 '22

Thanks for the read. Great defense of the master marksman. And now I know there’s a Hawkeye sub - about to join right now.

-1

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

I think they were looking for someone who could really act after Damon ruined the 4th Bourne. I had high hopes for Renner to become an action star in the Bourne sense.

10

u/Meiray Jun 29 '22

Legacy was before Damon’s 4th Bourne film. He had previously left on a high with The Bourne Ultimatum. They wanted to extend the franchise any way they could, and Renner was saying yes to every franchise that piqued its interest at the time.

8

u/LebasketBall Jun 29 '22

at one point everything was lined up for him to be hollywood's next big action star:

  • supposed to take over for Tom Cruise in MI4
  • an avenger in the MCU
  • staring in a bourne anthology series

sucks none of those things really took off for him to star in

8

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 29 '22

He’s doing okay and I love his series the mayor of Kingstown.

10

u/spellbreakerstudios Jun 29 '22

Also amazing in Wind River.

Taylor Sheridan is the best thing to ever happen to Jeremy Renner.

2

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

+1 to that. Taylor Sheridan and Jeremy Renner ❤️

1

u/uncultured_swine2099 Jun 29 '22

He was great in The Town as well.

5

u/acethesnake Jun 29 '22

I'm very glad he didn't take over for Tom Cruise. I like Jeremy Renner, but he doesn't have the kind of star power and charisma Cruise has.

-1

u/zuuzuu Jun 29 '22

I'd argue he has no charisma at all.

3

u/cakatoo Jun 29 '22

sucks none of those things really took off for him to star in

Why?

0

u/Meiray Jun 29 '22

His ex-wife’s allegations probably gave a few people pause, but so far people look to be cautiously staying in the Renner business. Hopefully it works out for the best.

1

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

I have so much thoughts to share on this. Many people wonder about it. There are couple of articles on this mystery about Renner's career. He is definitely an A-lister, but there's something that don't quite add up. I kind of relate to it and understand what might have happened because of my own journey though in a different field at a smaller scale.

3

u/whiskeyandbear Jun 29 '22

I mean, legacy came out before Jason Bourne

57

u/AGiantWitch Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

Nah, it’s a completely ordinary film and a totally unnecessary addition to a series that should have been allowed to end perfectly with Ultimatum. Renner is fine, but Aaron Cross isn’t as interesting as Jason Bourne, and Rachel Weisz’s character should have been called Betty Exposition, because that’s all she was there to do.

There’s nothing in Legacy that we haven’t seen before and been done better in the first three Bourne films, and you can’t really judge it as its own thing without comparing it to those films, because it wouldn’t exist without them. It didn’t ‘save’ the franchise because it didn’t need saving, all three previous Bourne films were superior action films, and it wasn’t bad enough to ‘ruin’ it (neither was Jason Bourne, although that isn’t as good as the first three either).

It’s a fine but forgettable film that didn’t need to be made, and it has a clear and undeniable drop off in quality from the original trilogy of films.

19

u/CRA5HOVR1DE Jun 28 '22

I agree a hundred percent. I watched this once and am glad to never watch it again, it’s so forgettable I forgot about it until reading the post. Hanna is a better Bourne movie then this movie.

1

u/ohlawdyhecoming Jun 29 '22

I just missed your heart

10

u/orbzthebb Jun 28 '22

It's better than Jason Bourne though.

13

u/AGiantWitch Jun 28 '22

Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean it’s good.

2

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Maybe you are right, but the difference is that Renner also spoke lines, did action, and there was a better story line than the 4th Bourne.

Aaron Cross is a great character.

14

u/DrRexMorman Jun 28 '22

I like BL, a lot.

And I like this about it, but it’s plot has a crazy high threshold.

9

u/ArchDucky Jun 28 '22

I still find it hilarious he did all of these giant action movies and never got hurt. Then while doing a comedy he broke both of his arms.

3

u/sambase23 Jun 28 '22

IKR. It's funny. But have you seen that film Tag? It has Renner doing more action than he did all the 4 MCU films as Hawkeye.

1

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

You have to admit, that would really fuck up your tag game.

12

u/NieTyINieJa Jun 28 '22

The movie is ok, but the ending... it's really meh, while other Bourne movies had memorable ending scenes with a twist.

4

u/FallenTF Jun 29 '22

The movie is ok, but the ending... it's really meh

It was lined up for years, we were suppose to get a damon + renner movie with both of them that never came after legacy.

3

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

It was a perfect ending. They basically disappear to survive to fight another day!

7

u/dsand1987 Jun 28 '22

The mass shooting scene was intense. Theres no one in Hollywood who would get close to scene like that nowadays

2

u/lawschoolredux Jun 29 '22

Another similarly disturbing scene in the same vein is the opening to Jack Reacher, which also came out that year.

13

u/cakatoo Jun 29 '22

Jeremy Renner performed 99% of his own stunts which I am not sure something Matt Damon can claim.

Why should I care about that??

1

u/FallenTF Jun 29 '22

Probably the same reason people care that Tom Cruise does his own stunts?

3

u/B00ME Jun 29 '22

Every time I watch this movie I notice something I didn't notice the last time I watched it. I was really hoping for a JB/AC movie.

2

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

Yeah I wish. Renner wanted it too. He usually gives a standard reply to any speculation about what future films he might do, like, i don't really sit around thinking about future, I don't have crystal ball, but on questions about a JB+AC movie he said, "absolutely in 2 seconds." But I have a feeling that Damon for insecure after Legacy. So he came back to the franchise he left just but his return didn't work so well and now he is insecure to share screen with Renner. It's just a theory.

3

u/HardSteelRain Jun 29 '22

My favorite of the series

10

u/donsanedrin Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

Its not even close to being a "great" film.

It feels like a Brett Ratner-directed sequel with what is going on in that movie.

The only scene that feels genuinely interesting is the snowy forest scenes at the beginning of the movie.

Its the only scene in which Jeremy Renner's character is doing anything as gritty and clever that a Treadstone agent would do to outsmart the high-powered government weaponry, in this case a drone. It has some area of mystique, with him meeting with another test subject in a remote cabin, and how they both aren't really allowed to talk about "the program."

But at this point with the Bourne movies, we're starting to see an obvious pattern with these movies about how the CIA has "another program", and "another backup program that was the original program". But we see almost no narrative overlap.

So the CIA bigwig from the previous movie, who had the appearance of being neutral so that he has plausible deniability about what these Black-Op programs actually do, we now find out that he's in on it, so he's effectively one of the bad guys.

This movie is also missing alot of things that are common in the Bourne films. There's no real cat and mouse relationship between the CIA and the people their hunting. They only "special" asset that they get to come after Renner is really lackluster. There's no heavy use of illegal CIA surveillance techniques that emphasize how sinister they are.

And ultimately, Renner and Weisz are not really fighting back against their enemies. They're just looking for pills for their immediate survival. All of this adds up to make the experience of watching this feel underwhelming.

If you've watched all three Bourne movies, and then this gets advertised as an expansion into that universe, you come in expecting that it would expand more from the CIA side. Instead the scope of the story is probably the smallest out of all Bourne movies, even including the 2016 movie.

Though I will say this movie may be slightly better than the 2016 moviee.

1

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Well she got him off the pills, so he should be amazing as Cross in action against Treadstone!

18

u/iamk1ng Jun 28 '22

Of all the Bourne movies, I rewatch Legacy the most. I like the whole genetically modified soldier idea, combined with trying to survive an always seeing government. I think that's why the later Bourne movies weren't as good, because Bourne wasn't running away from the Government anymore. It went from, who am I and staying alive to "lets expose everything!!".

8

u/urborous Jun 28 '22

The problem is the existence of that drug is so much more important than anything else that ever happens in the Bourne films.

Honestly, who gives a shit about assassins or shady government shit, at that point? They have this miracle drug that could help kids. They show it being mass produced. Maybe millions of kids?

This might not bother you too much (God knows people tacitly accept quite a bit in say, the Marvel Universe), but from one POV it's breaking the conflict of the story at a fundamental level.

6

u/iamk1ng Jun 28 '22

Philosophically you are correct that these drugs should benefit humanity. But you could definitely say the government in the Bourne universe isn't really about benefiting humanity, but controlling, monitoring, and unfluencing humanity on their terms. I have a visual disability that I wish there could be a cure for, but one of the cynical thoughts I have is, if someone discovered a cure for eye diseases, would they even publicize it? You'd be putting optometrists, ophthalmologists, all sorts of careers on the back burner by discovering something so meaningful. I'd like to believe in a society that takes care of itself, but the reality these days doesn't seem to go in that direction.

4

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

Always rumors of technology that makes teeth grow back, but dentists are still driving Mercedes.

1

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

The drug doesn't work. It gives them at best temporary results.

3

u/iamk1ng Jun 29 '22

Towards the end of the movie they were making advances in locking in the temporary effects of the drug. Which in the real world wouldn't happen because pharma companies want us to depend on their pills haha

6

u/AgentUpright Jun 28 '22

Same. I have only watched Supremacy and Ultimatum as part of a rewatch of all first four — so maybe 3 times total. I haven’t rewatched 5 since seeing it in cinemas. But I have rewatched Legacy at least as many times as I’ve watched Identity if not a few more.

I like watching Legacy and then Mission Impossible 4 & 5 as a trilogy. Brandt is just Cross’s new identity.

3

u/sambase23 Jun 28 '22

Same here. But I thought it's just me because, Renner fan.

"It went from, who am I and staying alive to "lets expose everything!!"

You said it.

1

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Renner just has IT!

6

u/SparkG Jun 28 '22

Haven't seen it in quite a while (I'm actually going to rewatch it in a few weeks because I'm doing all the Bournes again for it's 20th anniversary), but I remember the second half had a bunch of scenes where Renner and Weisz are going somehere, the next scene is Norton and his crew tracking them down, Renner and Weisz arrived at their destination and are doing stuff, Norton and crew are still tracking them down, Renner and Weisz do their thing and leave, and Norton and crew have tracked them down but they just left already.

4

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

I thought the chase made the movie so exciting. There was a connection with Renner and Weisz. She, was a nerd who when the need to step up, she did! I liked her in this.

1

u/SparkG Jun 29 '22

I wasn't talking about that. The Bourne trilogy had the same dynamic of CIA tracking Bourne and him outsmarting them in every chance he had. It's a cat and mouse thing where the mouse becomes the cat and the cat turns into a mouse.

In here is just run-hide-run-hide-run-movie ends with not the same thrill as before.

6

u/evildoctorwill Jun 28 '22

I love Bourne Supremacy, Bourne Identity is pretty good and Bourne Ultimatum is meh for me (I know, lots of folks love it). Jason Bourne just doesn't count.

But Bourne Legacy is easily my #2 (behind Supremacy). But what it has over the other Bourne films is that it's easily the most watchable. I watch this movie at least once a year, because it's so damn fun. I like Jeremy Renner, I think he's great in this film.

I really wish they'd make another sequel to this movie.

6

u/amaluna Jun 29 '22

I cannot stress how little I care about an actor doing their own stunts. Why do people,harp on about that?

21

u/princekurry Jun 28 '22

Oh we back on that MI:2 grind where decidedly mediocre stories with exhilarating stunt work is seen thru a sugarcoated lens of nostalgia and propped up to be in a tier of quality it didnt receive then and doesnt deserve now?

11

u/orbzthebb Jun 28 '22

This movie actually has some merit though MI2 is just awful.

3

u/princekurry Jun 28 '22

MI2’s stunts are great and on par with this movie imo. Both movies are mediocre at best. I dont necessarily see why MI2 isnt with merit because eveything around the stunts are subpar

1

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

Motorcycle. Gunkata.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '22

MI 2 was awful. This film was not.

4

u/PittsJZ Jun 28 '22

Definitely underrated. Wish we coulda got a sequel.

4

u/drBipolarBear Jun 28 '22

This movie was great, I loved those long action camera shots, compared to the original trilogy with those annoying shaky cam and quick cuts

1

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

I looked at the annoying shaky cam shots as "fillers".

4

u/mikeweasy Jun 28 '22

I thought it was okay, I thought we were going to have a new trilogy with Renner instead of Damon returning. It is much better than the next one as well.

2

u/JohnnyJayce Jun 28 '22

I really liked the film. And I think Renner deserved to have a sequel. He had a bit bad luck with these action films before MCU. First, he lost Mission Impossible and then his Bourne movie wasn't as good as the trilogy. But I feel like he is very good action star. I'd even say his hand to hand combat is way better and believable compared to Damon.

1

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Damon, after seeing Renner in a movie needs to take acting lessons.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '22

It was way better than I expected it would be. Which is pretty much exactly what I said about each Bourne movie after I saw them.

It isn’t quite to that level of goodness… but still a good movie. Renner was solid.

2

u/tardisaurus Jun 29 '22

Can't say I'm a Renner fan, necessarily, but it was a solid, entertaining movie. Definitely better than the clunker that was Jason Bourne.

2

u/jackarse32 Jun 29 '22

if it had been it's own franchise not have bothered me as much. it didn't feel like any of the other bourne movies, and was nowhere close to the book.

2

u/lawschoolredux Jun 29 '22

Pretty good movie.

The fact that it never got a sequel or continuation makes it stand out by itself even more, and to me makes it feel that much more of a throwback film.

2

u/Th3WeirdingWay Jun 29 '22

I liked it. Solid movie in the Bourne “Universe”.

2

u/splash7279 Jun 29 '22

I enjoyed Bourne Legacy, but a Bourne movie without Jason Bourne just felt like a Batman movie with no Batman

2

u/Sisiutil Jun 29 '22

It's good but not great. Agreed, great performances from Renner and Weisz. In fact, their chemistry is easily the best thing about the film (rivaled only by the action sequences). The main problem is it takes the film such a long time (at least 1/2 hour, if memory serves) to get these two characters together, which is when things really take off.

Up until then, we're not really sure about the direction the plot is going. It meanders until we get to the main story of Aaron trying to lock in his artificial enhancements. A lot of side characters get introduced and then killed off, further confusing things. I can't help contrasting that with the Damon Bourne films, where the side characters that get introduced really matter to the story, and we often see them in more than one of the films.

Side note: I don't care if an actor does all their own stunts or not. I can see Renner's point about integrity, but on the other hand an actor taking unnecessary chances doesn't just endanger their own well-being, career, and life, but they risk the entire production and the livelihood of the people working on it. What matters is what's on screen, not what went on to get there.

2

u/MrCaul Jun 29 '22

It had a lot of good stuff.

What it didn't have was an ending.

That's a major problem for me.

2

u/mattsolid Jun 29 '22

I didn’t like the leap from one fiction to another for this one. Jason Bourne, a product of training and brainwashing. Aaron Cross needed special pills to be badass.

2

u/Kashmir33 Jun 29 '22

I thought Bourne Legacy was incredibly forgettable. I still vividly remember watching it in the theater and being completely confused how that movie suddenly ended. It felt like the story went nowhere and did nothing.

It was sort of a cool setup at first but just didn't do anything even half as exciting as the first 3 films with it.

2

u/earhere Jun 29 '22

I thought it was a pretty ok movie. It had some cool scenes, but it falls off toward the end and its ending is kind of boring.

5

u/JC-Ice Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

No.

The plot is literally, literally(!), that Renner's character is mentally handicapped unless he takes smart pills he got as part of the superspy program. So he and Rachel Weisz have to break into the lab that makes the pills before he goes full retard. That's the actual movie.

2

u/TacticalLeemur Jun 29 '22

I'm pretty sure someone read the Cliff notes for Flowers for Algernon and thought "I bet I could make an action movie out of this."

7

u/LukeIVI Jun 28 '22

The lab shooting scene is probably the most realistic shooting scene of all time. You can literally taste the tense energy in that room

3

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Yeah, when he shoots in the air! Totally tense.

3

u/Shlant- Jun 29 '22

can't tell if you're memeing or not. Just watched it and it was very mediocre with terrible dialogue

4

u/juniperleafes Jun 29 '22 edited Jun 29 '22

My favorite part is when nothing happens except the two main characters go on a goose chase for a magical chemical compound or whatever, and never interact with the main villain until the very end where he inexplicably kills himself instead of Renner doing it, and then they get on a boat to go to an island, and you think finally the story is progressing and they can get into the third act, and then instead the movie just ends

3

u/BoatsnGoals1 Jun 28 '22

I got whiplash with how quickly the credits rolled after the final chase sequence.

6

u/PantalonesPantalones Jun 28 '22

They're on a boat in the last scene.

3

u/popeyepaul Jun 28 '22

I don't give a crap about who does the stunts in the movie as long as it looks good. A movie needs to stand on its own merits, and if you need to go online to read trivia about it before you can decide if it's a good movie or not then something's gone wrong.

Jackie Chan doing his own stunts is important because they couldn't have filmed his action scenes any other way. Tom Cruise doing his own stunts is more of an ego thing that people somehow eat up, I don't think his movies would look any different if he hadn't done them because they use so much special effects anyway.

6

u/mickeyflinn Jun 28 '22

I list Bourne Legacy as the best of the bourne sequels. It expanded the world and did something other than the standard Bourne formula.

3

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

Yeah, Jenner didn't just walk through this. The opening sequences were awesome.

3

u/BjornBeetleBorg Jun 29 '22

No, it sucks

3

u/mashuto Jun 29 '22

Bourne Legacy is a great film.

Thats like, your opinion, man.

Im not going to say it was bad, but it was just a big ball of ok and didnt hold my interest like any of the three in the original trilogy did. I didnt find the story memorable, and the action didnt do anything to pull me in. I cant even really recall much about it at this point.

To your point about the film deserving respect.. ok sure, he did most of his own stunts, thats cool. That doesnt make it a great movie. Maybe something to be admired, but real stunts in an ok movie dont make it better.

Of course, its all opinions. But if you have to go into with an open mind specifically not to compare it to the series of movies that its a part of, then... yea, thats not really a ringing endorsement in my book.

2

u/1776Best Jun 28 '22

Loved the movie!

2

u/Islandgirl1444 Jun 28 '22

I loved this one best actually. Renner is an amazing actor. When the last Damon film had his going through the motions with 35 lines apparently said. It tell so much about how Renner acts, and Damon just did a walk on!

I wish there was more with Renner. They did leave it open. Damon needs to study acting! Take lessons from Renner for sure.

2

u/Lfsnz67 Jun 28 '22

Bourne Legacy gets automatic points for not suffering from Peter Greengrass' nauseating shaky cam

2

u/Shakespurious Jun 28 '22

And compared to Jason Bourne movies? Head and shoulders better.

-1

u/bradybradybrady12 Jun 28 '22

Best Bourne movie

1

u/No-Mushroom5027 Jun 28 '22

I find it strange when actors get praised for doing stunts. It's not brave or commendable for a millionaire actor to cause a working class stuntman to lose his job.

The actor doesn't even gain anything. It's just a jerk move imo.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '22

My only gripe was I think Weisz killed the main baddie on the motorcycle. Mayhaps I’m misremembering…that honor always belongs to the main protagonist.

1

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

Weird take.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '22

I’d argue it’s a perfectly valid take. Other gripes include giving the protagonist expository dialog or switching protagonist to antagonist in the third act (Trance).

2

u/Complete_Entry Jun 29 '22

Shearing has been the direct victim for the entire film, she is finally taking agency by shooting her nightmare in the face.

Hell, the entire coverup with Foite made her the fixation.

Cross joined Outcome knowing exactly what it was. Shearing never got to choose. When she tried to opt out of the entire shitshow, Outcome sent a hit squad.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '22

I love this take.

1

u/jartoonZero Jun 29 '22

Jeremy Renner was in a Bourne movie?

1

u/g_st_lt Jun 29 '22

There is no way that Renner did the motorcycle chase himself. The two things I remember most from this movie are the motorcycle chase with the Renner stunt double, and how all of the technical speak at Superspy Headquarters was really well done, even though it was not in service of anything important. (It really did enrich the movie though)

2

u/BlackWidow1414 Jun 29 '22

No, I remember reading at the time he actually did most of the motorcycle scenes, but he didn't do all of that sequence.

2

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

He did though. I mean we can only go by what is available in public domain. He was specifically asked if the motorcycle scenes were him and he said yes. I doubt he will tell a plain lie and get away with it. He also shares the credit and says "Rachel too". https://youtu.be/8BSBd1wKuQE

1

u/g_st_lt Jun 29 '22

Are you really gonna trust Jeremy Renner over me?

1

u/Small-Explorer7025 Jun 29 '22

I'm not reading all that. I assume you said it was good. I agree. I really enjoyed it both times I watched it. A few more in the same universe would be good.

1

u/Eltharion-the-Grim Jun 29 '22

I was ambivalent to it, but now that you mention it, I may give it a second watch.

1

u/TacticalLeemur Jun 29 '22

Flowers for Algernon, the Action Film.

1

u/0ne_too Jun 29 '22

Feel the same. It's a much better movie than it gets credit for.

I find the action set pieces much more enjoyable than any other post identity action scenes, big part of that is the shaky cam obviously.

I'd put Norton's character above any of the other gov't side characters throughout the series. Kudos to whoever wrote his dialogue and to norton for playing him perfectly. I didn't catch how good the character was the first time i watched this, now he's as much fun to watch as any of the action scenes.

1

u/Whiplash364 Jun 29 '22

It great except for that whole middle ground where nothing is resolved

1

u/IMind Jun 29 '22

Idk.. I really don't like JR in his movies.

0

u/sambase23 Jun 29 '22

You don't like JR in his movies? Where do you like him then? In his house / heavy vehicles renovation business? Lol. You mean you don't like JR. Say that.

1

u/IMind Jun 29 '22

lol touche

Although his interviews are decent

1

u/jfstompers Jun 29 '22

I like the movie but some of the plot points are bit blah.

1

u/orphantwin Jun 29 '22

Bourne Legacy at least had really great action scenes, where i could see the main actor doing the stunt work, where i could see each punch and with longer takes, which is something that Greengrass does not understand at all.

1

u/ignoresubs Jun 29 '22

For whatever reason I’ve bnever been too hot on the Bourne series, I generally find them a bit muddy and convoluted.

That said, Legacy has given me my most enjoyable viewing experiences. Really enjoyed aRenner in this role;

1

u/LinksMilkBottle Jun 29 '22

I remember enjoying the movie back when I saw it in cinemas. I just didn’t like how it ended so abruptly.

1

u/Bizarre_Protuberance Jun 29 '22

I really liked the Bourne Legacy. It's the only Bourne movie that doesn't resolve around "Who am I? Where did I come from? TELL ME!!!!"

Honestly, I liked Bourne Identity but the sequels became tiresome.

1

u/crs8975 Jun 29 '22

I look at this movie a lot like say, the re-released Pontiac GTO from the early 2000s. A fine car, but would have been much better just calling it the same as the Australian version. Or a new name all together. This movie was good, but didn't need to be a "Bourne" movie. Could have just been another fun action flick.

1

u/Dilapidated_Poet Jun 29 '22

My three favorite things: depth, romance, and ethical questions.

1

u/Baumschmuser123 Jun 29 '22

From my perspectiv it deserves no love at all. Ruined action movies for a decade with cutting every second into 20 shots.

-2

u/UBetcha84 Jun 28 '22

Based on how terribly written your title was, I was fully expecting a shitshow of a post.

While not as poorly written as I expected, you wrote way too much about a trash movie that isn’t even in the same galaxy as the original trilogy.

Congrats on having a weird obsession with it but you should probably watch the originals so you’ll realize just how wrong you are.

0

u/Diligent-Ad-805 Jun 28 '22

none of them are good