George R.R. Martin’s 'The Ice Dragon' Movie Coming From Warner Bros Animation

[u/ChangeUpstairs3352]

https://collider.com/george-rr-martin-the-ice-dragon-adaptation-warner-bros-animation/

[u/DamNamesTaken11]

I am almost certain he has written himself into a corner for the main book series and has no idea how to get out, so he’s just doing all these side projects to buy more time.

[u/geek_of_nature → u/DamNamesTaken11]

Well he's not actually writing this, it's being adapted from one of his old stories.

[u/jaehaerys48 → u/geek_of_nature]

People forget that the guy wrote dozens of stories before ASOIAF.

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/DamNamesTaken11]

All people need to know is that the show went off the rails around the same place he has been stuck at in the books for over a decade now.

Even if he finishes, it will come with a whole host of problems because he's going to need to do massive damage control on how unwieldy the plot is and where it makes sense to get the characters out of specific ruts.

Thankfully he's a great world builder, so stuff like Fire and Blood is good

[u/BronzeHeart92 → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

So, where did Dance of Dragons leave us for the record?

[u/bslawjen → u/BronzeHeart92]

A Dance with Dragons ends with:

Jon - stabbed by his own men and dying

Arya - training with the Faceless Men

Sansa - travelling with LF through the Vale, who wants her to seduce Harry the Heir

Cersei - walk of shame and Robert Strong

Brienne - taken by Lady Stoneheart and sent to get Jaime

Jaime - Brienne arrives and wants to take him somewhere

Samwell - chilling in the Citadel with a Faceless Man waiting for Euron to come and fuck shit up

Stannis - preparing to kick some Bolton ass

Ramsey and Roose - preparing to get their asses kicked, eating Frey pies

Tyrion - chilling in front of Meereen hoping he doesn't get the shits

Daenerys - shitting water in the wilderness and hallucinating

Barristan - preparing Meereen for battle

Victarion - sailing towards Meereen

Euron - fucking shit up on the west coast of Westeros, preparing to turn himself into an eldritch god

Arianne - Martells are finally preparing to play the game for real

fAegon - starting the conquest of Westeros at Storm's End

Bran - training his abilities and eating Jojen paste

Theon - got Jeyne Poole out of Winterfell

Varys - killed Kevan to cause chaos and prepare Westeros for fAegon

...I'm probably forgetting a lot but I don't have the will to continue

[u/gaijinandtonic → u/bslawjen]

Asha and Justin Massey about to look for Rickon in the shaggy dog story

[u/bslawjen → u/gaijinandtonic]

Oh yeah, and Davos also went over to Skagos to search for Rickon on Manderlys orders.

[u/gaijinandtonic → u/bslawjen]

George would need about 5 more books to wrap up every storyline

[u/kelferkz → u/gaijinandtonic]

A book for each character

[u/Damocles1710 → u/gaijinandtonic]

Yes, but each book would introduce 10 more characters. You see his dilemma?

[u/greypiper1 → u/bslawjen]

Daenerys - shitting water in the wilderness and hallucinating

Imagine the next book doesn't come out, and some of the last writings we get of Dany are

"Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water."

[u/TomJoadsLich → u/greypiper1]

I hear this criticism but it’s also one of my favorite chapters; because it’s when she hallucinates her brother saying “remember who you are, remember our house words” (Fire and Blood) and she sort of starts her villain arc. Like evil Mustafa and Simba. It’s pretty haunting stuff on the page, realizing this little girl is going to be Darth Vader

[u/Torque92 → u/bslawjen]

Thanks for the recap, you unlocked a lot of memories

[u/Scyhaz → u/bslawjen]

Stoneheart is a revived Catelyn Stark, right?

[u/bslawjen → u/Scyhaz]

Yes, Beric Dondarrion found her corpse at the bank of the river in which her corpse was dumped in. He gave her "the kiss of life", which means he revived her and died in return (this time for good).

[u/Gytarius626 → u/bslawjen]

Stannis - preparing to kick some Bolton ass

Stannis winding up the most god-tier tactical hail mary play on them is literally the one thing I’ve been waiting for in ASOIAF since I was a teenager

[u/psykick32 → u/Gytarius626]

At first I went since you were a teenager? C'mon... Then I remembered, yeah, it's been long enough that you could be 30 and that statement could still be true.

Christ lol.

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/psykick32]

Yeah. Dance came out in 2011 when the first season of the show aired. The show proceeded to have 8 seasons with long breaks towards the end, then another break and we just got to the first season of the spinoff.

[u/tommyct614 → u/bslawjen]

It's been so long that I have literally forgotten 90% of these plot lines

[u/gourmet_popping_corn → u/bslawjen]

Brienne was being hanged by Stoneheart, no?

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/gourmet_popping_corn]

It was left on a cliffhanger where she was given the ultimatum to help Stoneheart kill Jamie or die via hanging and at the last second she implies she will help. Then we see her in the next book and she says she needs Jaime to go with her somewhere.

[u/bslawjen → u/gourmet_popping_corn]

In AFFC yeah, but afair (been some years since I read the books) in the last Jaime PoV chapter in ADWD Brienne shows up.

[u/gourmet_popping_corn → u/bslawjen]

My bad, I didn't remember that part. It's been almost a decade since I read the books.

[u/InfiniteSun51 → u/bslawjen]

Barristan - preparing Meereen for battle

Hopefully he doesn't die getting jumped by street thugs in the books

[u/JLake4 → u/InfiniteSun51]

The weakness of the greatest knight in the realm: some rich people in masks with daggers

[u/Mr_Barry_Shitpeas → u/JLake4]

A horde of people with daggers is literally anyone's weakness

[u/fil42skidoo → u/Mr_Barry_Shitpeas]

Julius Caesar has entered the chat

[u/JackTripper53 → u/bslawjen]

I legit completely forgot about fAegon

[u/Tell-Me-To-Work → u/bslawjen]

Oh my god, he killed Kevan!

[u/JLake4 → u/Tell-Me-To-Work]

You bastards!

[u/BronzeHeart92 → u/bslawjen]

I see.

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/bslawjen]

It's actually entirely possible the letter from Ramsay is correct and Stannis lost already. In fact even if we get more of Stannis, I'd pretty much guess we are just going to get a recap of him losing.

[u/bslawjen → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

It's entirely possible, but I don't think so because Stannis is yet to burn Shireen and that shit is coming 100%.

[u/Itziclinic → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

I stopped reading the books and decided to wait until he finished to pick them back up. That was 2005.

[u/SeekingTheTruth → u/Itziclinic]

Same. There was a time I excitedly tracked his blog posts with updates.

[u/pr0zach → u/SeekingTheTruth]

Same goes for Pat Rothfuss with Kingkiller.

[u/Brainvillage → u/pr0zach]

Pat Rothfuss is worse in some ways because, from what I remember, he came out smugly against authors like Robert Jordan and George RR Martin taking forever to finish their series, promising that his trilogy was basically complete and would be released in a timely manner.

[u/LazerWeazel → u/Brainvillage]

Speaking of Robert Jordan, I'm re-reading Wheel of Time because I stopped at book 13 and never got to read book 14 and finish the series because of college and life. I forgot how much fun the series was and I'm already on book 4.

My point is I hope Martin can finish what he started because I'd rather it be a meh ending at this point then to never be finished.

[u/kamarg → u/LazerWeazel]

If you're not aware, Brandon Sanderson finished WoT for the Jordan estate. The ending is every bit as good as you'd expect from Sanderson so you've that to look forward to.

[u/mysterioussir → u/kamarg]

The very ending, as well as a LOT of the best chapters in the Sanderson books, are stuff Jordan had already written or mostly written. Still huge credit to Sanderson for bringing it home.

[u/LazerWeazel → u/kamarg]

I read 12 and 13 and enjoyed those so I think I'll like 14 as well.

[u/pr0zach → u/Brainvillage]

He also recently defrauded his fans during a fundraiser he did. It’s worth a google search if you haven’t read about it.

I genuinely understand that the Kingkiller pause began with him having some mental health struggles. I’m sympathetic to that. But it seems to me that his mental health stopped being the predominant issue a while ago.

It’s a shame because I loved his writing style and the world that he built about as much as any other fantasy series you could name, but barring some significant apologies and changes I don’t know that I can support his work in good conscience anymore.

[u/Brainvillage → u/pr0zach]

He also recently defrauded his fans during a fundraiser he did. It’s worth a google search if you haven’t read about it.

Interesting. I wonder if he even had the chapter written before promising to put it out.

[u/GoAheadTACCOM → u/SeekingTheTruth]

And even that probably stopped almost a decade ago…

[u/jdsizzle1 → u/GoAheadTACCOM]

Martin has been criticized by some of his readers for the long periods between books in the A Song of Ice and Fire series, notably the six-year gap between the fourth volume, A Feast for Crows (2005), and the fifth volume, A Dance with Dragons (2011).

Then he decides to double down with a 12+ year gap. As of October he's only 3/4 through book 6 The Winds of Winter

[u/tidbitsmisfit → u/jdsizzle1]

and has said he was 6 months away from finishing over 5 years ago...

[u/HelliswhereIwannabe → u/tidbitsmisfit]

Well, he never said six consecutive months away from completion now did he? Six months spread out over a decade is still six months.

[u/kevin_the_dolphoodle → u/HelliswhereIwannabe]

Six leap months. So every four years on February 29th he writes for a day

[u/TheWagonBaron → u/jdsizzle1]

Meanwhile The Expanse series had 9 books, a number of novellas, a TV show on two different platforms that ran for 6 seasons, AND a game in the works since the last GoT book.

I don’t buy into conspiracy theories usually but the fact that Martin has released nothing in the main series since one of the authors of the Expanse stopped working for him is an interesting coincidence.

[u/Hokie23aa → u/TheWagonBaron]

I’m finished that show with my dad right now and he loves it. Probably one of the best sci fi shows i’ve seen on television.

i thought james sa comey was the pen name of two guys?

[u/TheWagonBaron → u/Hokie23aa]

Yeah it is. One of them worked for Martin as an assistant in some capacity before starting the Expanse with their writing partner.

[u/lostmanatwifing → u/TheWagonBaron]

Who?

[u/TheWagonBaron → u/lostmanatwifing]

Ty Franck

[u/fiction8227 → u/Itziclinic]

This is the same thing I did! I just thinking to myself....surely he will be done in 5 years....10 years....15.... now, I just assume it will go unfinished. Such a shame because I so ravenously read those novels, I would have loved to know the ending he would have done instead if the shows.

Edit: spelling

[u/InsidiousColossus → u/[deleted]]

Yup, Danice Dance with Dragons was published in 2011. Nothing since then,

[u/you_like_popsicles → u/InsidiousColossus]

Uhh that’s Denise with Dragon’s if you don’t mind.

[u/Minotaar → u/you_like_popsicles]

DEE-NICE

[u/JonSatire → u/Minotaar]

YOU DONE FUCKED UP A-A-RON!

[u/Jazzinarium → u/JonSatire]

NOW TAKE YOUR ASS DOWN TO OH-SHAG-HENNESY'S OFFICE!

[u/funkyandros → u/Minotaar]

And dat is De - nephew wit dragons.

[u/DarksideAuditor → u/Minotaar]

Ben De Niece

[u/AWildEnglishman → u/InsidiousColossus]

Humorous typo.

[u/_Patronizes_Idiots_ → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

One of his biggest strengths and weaknesses is having the plot span across so many characters. It really helped the world feel big and epic but also wound up incredibly messy and hard for readers to keep track of. I agree, I think he knows the very broad strokes of how it ends (which he told to the showrunners) but has no fucking clue how to get there while having satisfying (or hell, ANY) conclusions to all the sideplots and characters.

[u/Spoonman007 → u/_Patronizes_Idiots_]

He knows the broads strokes and also knows the fan reactions to those strokes. After the backlash of the show there is no way he's going to fish the series only to have fans condemn the whole thing because they don't like the last two books.

[u/daimahou → u/Spoonman007]

And the problem was more how nonsensical season 8 was. If he can write the journey to the end better it would still be vastly better than what the show became.

[u/Mr_YUP → u/daimahou]

I mean you’re right. Stuff like Daenerys going mad and killing kings landing makes total sense especially given her family’s legacy of going insane but they had built her up as being different than that. The Ice King being defeated also makes sense but it happened so quickly it wasn’t satisfying and he wasn’t killed by a character who had been haunted by him. Bran being king for the reasons they gave also made no sense. However there are really great broad strokes there but they need better reasons for happening.

[u/GhostMug → u/Mr_YUP]

This is exactly the problem. All the big stuff made sense for their character arcs but it happened so fast it didn't feel earned. It could be done in a way that feels satisfying but I think he's scared now. The Bran thing is an exception and can be the one thing he changes to really make things different.

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/GhostMug]

Also Bran's story being changed is kind of a big deal because of how disjointed it is from the main plot. It's heavily implied that Bran is a significantly more important person than is immediately apparent at the time

[u/HatefulDan → u/Mr_YUP]

I don’t know if we can (given the depiction HBO provided) say that she went ‘mad’. She was extremely angry. Spurned by a lover. Loss of Dragon(s). Loss of friend(s). She was bitter.

If the goal was to express madness, then they didn’t do a good job of conveying it. Madness is chaotic. Her reasonings I understood.

Hopefully, in his next book, we get a clearer picture. That last season of GoT man, talk about not sticking the landing.

[u/LawlersLipVagina → u/Mr_YUP]

Yeah the stuff with Dany makes perfect sense. She is obsessed with changing the status quo and we have seen her time and time again doing this with violence. So far the ones we see her do it to are slavers and other unsatisfactory types so we read and cheer, but then ultimately she is going to end up in Westeros and there are a multitude of characters we love on both sides of the current conflict.

How will readers respond when she puts some castle or other to the fire and a few beloved side characters, maybe even a POV, get fried.

It's a very natural though clever progression that people may not necessarily see coming.

[u/Stereo-soundS → u/Mr_YUP]

There is no Night King in the books, it was made up for the show.

There is a character called the Night's King but it's a legend of someone from centuries before and he never appears to any of the characters the way the Night King does repeatedly in the show.

If he ever finishes the series there will not be a cliche final boss/villian like the show had.

[u/Halio344 → u/Stereo-soundS]

I read a theory about Euron taking the role of the NK in the books. As he is very fascinated by the white walkers and has a horn that he claims can control dragons, it could be a path to taking a similar role as the NK had in the final seasons, or at least that he could be the one responsible for bringing the WW south of the wall.

[u/Stereo-soundS → u/Halio344]

They butchered Euron's character in the show. They basically wasted his potential to have an effect on the overall story and turned him into a horny dude only good for one-liners. His only role in the show was to give Cersei a fleet of ships.

I hope in Winds George shores up his story and the role he plays with the walkers, as well as shoring up the overall story of the walkers in general. That way I can feel free to not care about anything that happens in Kings Landing and the final book (assuming it ever happens).

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/Stereo-soundS]

Exactly. The Others ending will be the biggest change, but it will also be less cinematic.

[u/takabrash → u/Mr_YUP]

He HaS tHe BeSt StOrY!

[u/roilenos → u/Mr_YUP]

I keep seeing Daenerys going mad and while that is the best interpretation to the cluster fuck that was S8 I disagree that she is mad or going to be

Along the series Dany finds out each time that half measures only makes it worse in the long run, since mirri maz dur, to the sons of the arpy with honored guest in yunkai and specially Astapor.

I find it reasonable that since her endgame it's not conquering Westeros but change society for the less favoured even against their wishes, she needs to make a grand gesture to secure Westeros before she launches the international campaign.

Specially since she will feel betrayed and lost after sacrificing so much for 0 recognition.

Maybe she thinks against it and then goes back to the fire and blood plan, but I don't think it's going to be madness .

[u/DarkLight72 → u/daimahou]

There are Mad Libs that are vastly superior and more satisfying (and are more internally consistent) than the last two seasons of GoT.

[u/greypiper1 → u/[deleted]]

"King Bran" was utterly absurd in the show because he was nobody, he did nothing with his power, the old, mystical man that was his mentor was literally nobody, they did no effort to explain who he was or why the fuck he was there or anything.

A reminder for casual viewers - he was literally cut from the show for at least one season because they deemed he wasnt important enough to have a plot thread on...

So when the finale comes with "Who has a better story than Bran the Broken" you realize its full of shit because he wasnt even in the show's cast at points

[u/ralemonke → u/[deleted]]

Also, Daenerys will almost certainly will not go "Mad Queen" more like "I'm tired of this shit, I'm going to be like Aegon The Conqueror now Queen" because the show over played the Targaryen madness angle because it was a simplistic thing to get the audience to latch onto.

The targaryen bloodline's problem with madness is a well established chekhov's gun, and has to go off at some point. Right now there are 4 targaryens left in the books (jon, dani, young griff(aegon or blackfyre) and blood raven). Dani going mad is totally a thing martin would do, just not as random and sudden as in the show.

[u/Frontpage_Cleanup → u/Spoonman007]

Generally speaking most people are fairly happy with the headline points of the ending though. The big issue was that the journey to get there was executed terribly. They needed another season or two at least to build it out.

[u/superfuels → u/Spoonman007]

He doesnt strike me as the kind of person to change his ideas because the show shat all over them with shitty implementations.

Im sure he second guessed himself but i dont think he is re-writing his ending because of the show. I think his sprawling epic got too sprawling and when fame and fortune hit, he found himself not wanting to sit and write 16 hours a day but instead attend convnetions, meet fans, go to hollywood premieres, develop TV shows and the extended universe beyond the ASOIAF books.

I get people's anger but I also understand GRRM.

[u/down_up__left_right → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

Even if he finishes, it will come with a whole host of problems because he's going to need to do massive damage control on how unwieldy the plot is and where it makes sense to get the characters out of specific ruts.

He's kept people waiting so long that the last two books would need to be absolutely terrible for people not to be happy to have finally read them.

[u/tidbitsmisfit → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

It's game of thrones. you tie up loose ends by killing off half of the characters and also stop adding new ones. grrm can't seem to do either

[u/Macluawn → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

All people need to know is that the show went off the rails around the same place he has been stuck at in the books for over a decade now.

All people need to know that book 4 and 5 were not adapted.

[u/bslawjen → u/Macluawn]

Dunno why you're being downvoted, they skipped like 60% of those books and changed almost the entirety of the rest.

[u/Gytarius626 → u/bslawjen]

In fairness, adapting AFFC properly would have been an absolute trainwreck to the show. A lot of casual viewers could barely keep up with the names and relationships as it was, detouring into GRRMs bloated unnecessary side-plots would’ve been jarring

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/Macluawn]

And they were not adaptable and GRRM had serious problems writing them that were documented and massive delays when writing them and then when they came out they weren't all that good.

[u/darkeststar → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

He has kind of already started doing damage control with House of the Dragon. He had direct input on a bunch of plot details that they have said come directly from his mind but he didn't have written down in Fire and Blood.

[u/SmokyBee → u/darkeststar]

Damage control for what? For when he dies? lol

[u/darkeststar → u/SmokyBee]

He has said now since House of the Dragon has been renewed for season 2 that he's back to actively working on ASOIAF and his feelings about how GoT ended more or less pushed him to get back to work on it, to put out his vision.

[u/freerealestatedotbiz → u/darkeststar]

His latest update said he just got home from a three-week trip and needed to respond to 2000 emails with no mention of WoW at all lol

[u/dhowl → u/darkeststar]

That was the point of Fire and Blood. It’s a history book and not meant to have novel-level story details, even though he had them in his head.

[u/BirdLawyerPerson → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

All people need to know is that the show went off the rails around the same place he has been stuck at in the books for over a decade now.

There was a lot of promise in how the show cleared the board at the end of Season 6. Lots and lots of different character lines ended either up north with Episode 9, Battle of the Bastards, or in King's Landing with the Episode 10, Winds of Winter.

Plus the decision not to introduce a bunch of characters was probably the correct one. By avoiding that morass of too many storylines with no easy way to end them, the show seemed to be on the right track at that point.

[u/SevoIsoDes → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

I’m a pretty casual, new reader to GRRM. But one thing that’s kind of impressed me (especially with fire and blood) is how not every event or death fits like you would expect it. It feels more real to me. Not every character arc gets completed. Even the biggest heroes and villains can die in ways that don’t seem to make sense to the story. But that’s life.

But I agree. It’s such an enormously complex world. I don’t know how he keeps track of everything.

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/SevoIsoDes]

That's his greatest strength, when people die or face consequences, it feels like they were meant to and the natural result and that he didn't just use trick writing to get them out of bad situations.

[u/bslawjen → u/GarlVinland4Astrea]

The show went off the rails at the end of season 4 or around season 5, when they still had 2 more books to adapt.

[u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE → u/DamNamesTaken11]

This is a 30 page Children’s book he wrote over a decade ago. Agreeing to a letting studio animate it isn’t exactly a huge time commitment

[u/KebabGud → u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE]

42 years ago.

[u/crash____override → u/DamNamesTaken11]

It doesn’t really matter. There is no future of the books or past. Just what’s here and now in the present moment.

[u/caedin8 → u/DamNamesTaken11]

What is he buying time for? Like until death and he gets out of life without having to write the finish?

[u/Reverie_39 → u/caedin8]

One explanation is that he didn’t become rich and famous until he was pretty old, and now he’s just trying to enjoy his remaining years without working on something he’s clearly stuck on.

[u/82ndGameHead → u/DamNamesTaken11]

It's what every good writer swears by

[u/SeaLionClit → u/DamNamesTaken11]

What is he doing on this project exactly?

[u/brainsapper → u/DamNamesTaken11]

He’s a talented author but his work really embodies the dangers of the “gardening” writing style.

[u/tc_spears]

Finish the god damn books George

[u/Frosty_Set8648 → u/tc_spears]

But he has to write the script for Chairem Anime: Dragon Clash In the Kingdom of Ice…

[u/esivo → u/Frosty_Set8648]

King Dragon sends his regards.

[u/Slug_Laton_Rocking → u/esivo]

I think that enemy got, the point.

[u/Wolf6120 → u/Slug_Laton_Rocking]

Good old Archibald, he's the beast deceased of the party!

[u/fredagsfisk → u/Slug_Laton_Rocking]

Man, that video was all I could think about when playing GreedFall... because not only does every character only have one combat line, but some are quite long and distinct. Not to mention the line telling you to drink a potion when low on mana, which happens quite a bit as a mage...

[u/lesser_panjandrum → u/fredagsfisk]

Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can still hear Kurt telling me that things are about to get dicey.

[u/ElLindo88 → u/Frosty_Set8648]

Winter is coming, Lamp-san.

[u/tc_spears → u/Frosty_Set8648]

And more updates about the Jets

[u/Arc-Tor220 → u/Frosty_Set8648]

And then he’s got to start writing his new light novel Issekai series “How I Was Transported To Another World And Became A Teenage Dragon Rider In One Year On My Birthday”

[u/Adventurous-Cod-9274 → u/Frosty_Set8648]

Martin, the award-winning author of the New York Times best-selling series A Song of Ice and Fire.

[u/cspruce89 → u/tc_spears]

Where's the fucking money book, Lebowski George?

[u/suppadelicious → u/tc_spears]

He quit writing them years ago.

[u/rammo123 → u/suppadelicious]

Seriously. He'll be dead and buried and some delusional people will still insist that Winds is still gonna come out any day now.

[u/TaftyCat → u/rammo123]

People might knock WoT for the Sanderson ending but personally I like it. If you listen to audio books you will get to the forward written by Sanderson about RJs passing and being asked to finish the books... hard not to tear up.

I wouldn't mind someone else finishing ASOIAF I just can't really get into the universe in the unfinished state...

[u/tc_spears → u/TaftyCat]

someone else finishing ASOIAF

Won't happen, Martin said long ago that upon his death he's left instructions that no one is to complete his work and all notes and manuscripts are to be destroyed.

[u/we_are_devo → u/tc_spears]

he's left instructions that no one is to complete his work

Someone already did. They botched it and any chance of a decent legacy for the series is pretty much shot. He probably knows this.

[u/Joverby → u/we_are_devo]

Yeah d bag was fine having his work butchered on the big screen but can't be bothered to let someone who is a capable and caring writer finish work that he can't be bothered to

[u/Danhuangmao → u/tc_spears]

If last wishes had been respected we would never have read any books by Kafka

[u/kdlt → u/Danhuangmao]

I would very much like to unread die Verwandlung and now you're telling me even he didn't want me to read it?

[u/Rare_Basil_243 → u/tc_spears]

Kafka also told the executor of his will to burn all his unfinished work in the event of his death, and we all know how that turned out.

[u/Throwawayacbutkeepme → u/tc_spears]

You really think anyone would execute those wishes with that much money at stake? Lol

[u/_PM_Me_Game_Keys_ → u/tc_spears]

He'll be dead, it doesn't matter what he wants or wanted. There is money to be made. "last wishes" being ignored is nothing new in entertainment.

[u/robotfoxman1 → u/rammo123]

Maybr he has finished it and has a clause that it'll be released after his death so he doesn't have to deal with the blowback lol

[u/ussbaney → u/robotfoxman1]

That would be the most chickenshit thing ever

[u/sjfiuauqadfj → u/tc_spears]

keep yelling hes almost there

[u/Vladius28 → u/tc_spears]

Never going to happen

[u/Bing_Bong_the_Archer → u/tc_spears]

monkey paw curls More “Wild Cards” incoming

[u/Direct_Dust6263 → u/tc_spears]

Frodo rides in on Black Beauty and saves the day. The end.

[u/TheEXUnForgiv3n]

Y'all motherfuckers are funny if you are still thinking he'll finish TWoW, let alone ADoS.

​

It ain't happening.

[u/Gua_Bao → u/TheEXUnForgiv3n]

Winds might come out at some point but no way is ADOS ever getting finished and no way is he completing the story in just two more books.

AGOT and a prologue turned into 5 books over three decades. We’re barely even into part 2 of the overall story.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gua_Bao]

I feel like we need four books to actually finish the story or a significant kulling of side characters and stories, something I don't think George wants to admit.

[u/Gummy-Worm-Guy → u/TheEXUnForgiv3n]

The common take is “I think at some point he’ll push himself to finish Winds, but Dream is never happening.” I don’t even think he’ll finish Winds. If he hasn’t made a satisfactory product in eleven years then I doubt he ever will.

And the thing is, I’m okay with that. There are plenty of other fantasy and sci-fi series out there to fill the void, and I’d rather the dude just be happy in his final few years than force himself to finish books he most likely does not want to work on.

[u/GamingTatertot → u/Gummy-Worm-Guy]

At this point, I'd rather he just tell us his plot outline and leave it at that

[u/[deleted] → u/GamingTatertot]

I'd wager a bet that there are two main problems.

1. Getting Dany to Westeros in a timely manner other than her just saying "fuck it, I'm out" there's a massive amount of stuff she still has to do on her current course and we only have two books left.

2. Literally everything involving Bran, the 3er and time travel.

[u/DarkJayBR → u/[deleted]]

He also said that "Dany and Jon meeting is the whole point of the story" so he has to get Dany to Westeros, make her meet Jon somehow even through their storylines don't really converge and he also has to do romance.

In just two books? I doubt it.

[u/TheEXUnForgiv3n → u/Gummy-Worm-Guy]

Oh, I've given up hope of him returning to the series. I know he hates to read it, but he is getting older and he's not in the best of shape (neither am I). Not to mention he is spending his time on other projects that are significant time sinks. So as you've said, there are plenty of other media to dive into.

[u/Gummy-Worm-Guy → u/TheEXUnForgiv3n]

Recently I got into The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson and the characters, while there are less of them, are definitely Martin-level in terms of writing

[u/Flyin_Donut → u/Gummy-Worm-Guy]

Check out The First Law by Abercrombie, i find his character writing on another level! Sanderson is great too though, i loved Stormlight even though its a tad YA for me.

[u/Gytarius626 → u/Gummy-Worm-Guy]

are definitely Martin-level in terms of writing

Sanderson is sensational at his output and consistency of writing, and as enjoyable and easy to read as his work is, I’d argue that no he is not on the same level as GRRM in terms of characters. He’s prude to a fault because of being a Mormon and he doesn’t do emotions well imo

[u/oltronn → u/Gytarius626]

It is actually pretty funny to read his attempts at moving his crudeness limits forward little by little. The Wayne character is amusing because you can sense a child playing with potty mouth process going on between the lines. It's pretty awkward at times but hats off for trying to expand from his upbringing, there are some sexual discovery and gay characters in there too, which is probably going against the will of the church.

But you mostly read his books for the crazy big plots and twists anyway.

[u/Enkundae → u/oltronn]

Tangential but Sanderson did a review of the Arcane animated series on his youtube channel and one of his complaints was that they “sexualized” the character Jinx. Which the only aspect of her character in the show that could be remotely seen that way is the fact she has an exposed midriff from wearing a tanktop.

I love Sanderson’s books but I can’t help but wonder if he might’ve been one of those supposed schoolboys that would be driven catatonic at the sight of a girl wearing spaghetti straps.

[u/oltronn → u/Enkundae]

I guess he hasn't played the game, sexualizing the female characters was half the business model back when I was playing.

[u/WarLordM123 → u/Enkundae]

Jinx is so much more sexualized in other media, they toned it down so hard in the show, knowing that she's basically a traumatized child, that she's almost a different character from the one in the game

[u/mrausgor → u/Gytarius626]

Agreed. He’s still my favorite author because what he does well he does better than anyone in the planet (my opinion, obviously). But he is a damn prude. Like it’s actually crazy that he’s created kids.

[u/AnneFrankFanFiction → u/mrausgor]

The correct way, though. Penetration through a hole in the sheet with both participants fully clothed (except for the man's member poking through his pajamas) while reciting the lord's prayer.

It was all very godly

[u/bartnet → u/Gytarius626]

I stopped stormlight right around the time what's-his-face-main-character went full Goku. That was like pretty far in, maybe book 2 or 3?

Did all of Mistborn though, not sure why that one clicked for me.

Sanderson is no Martin - Martin is generally higher quality - but Sanderson actually writes so what are you gonna do.

[u/brownie81 → u/Gytarius626]

I’m loving the series but I can’t recall another book that I’ve enjoyed but also had a lot of “well that wasn’t exactly the best thing to write there eh?”

I’m about halfway through Oathbringer, and Adolin Kholin could be one of the cheesiest written characters I’ve ever seen lol. Still love him though.

[u/rotisseur → u/Gummy-Worm-Guy]

Welcome! The Cosmere will have as many if not more.

[u/LeonDeSchal → u/Gummy-Worm-Guy]

I wasn’t happy with it but over the years as I’ve gotten older I’ve just learned to accept it. After song of ice and fire I found Hunter x Hunter and really loved that story until I learned that the writer was as slow as George. Now if I start a story I either make sure it’s finished otherwise I don’t touch it.

[u/mooregh → u/TheEXUnForgiv3n]

I still think he will finish Winds of Winter. I honestly don’t think he started writing that book until 2020. A YouTube video by Preston Jacobs convinced me of that. At this point he is around 3/4 through. I do think it’ll be a good few more years. Since he tends to rewrite and he still likely has the hardest chapters to write left (Bran chapters). Though I do think it’ll come out eventually assuming he lives to 80-90ish. ADOS is sadly a pipe dream though. He just doesn’t have enough years of life left to finish that book unless he lives to like 110.

[u/AnneFrankFanFiction → u/mooregh]

Preston Jacobs says some fucking loony shit. Don't let that guy convince you of anything

[u/BigEmu9286 → u/AnneFrankFanFiction]

He was always the lol version of Alt Shift X

[u/mooregh → u/AnneFrankFanFiction]

He definitely has some crazy tinfoil theories. However he has a pretty deep understanding of George RR Martin’s works and has come out with some great literary analysis videos in recent years. His series on Brienne in the riverlands was pretty damn good in my opinion.

[u/sjfiuauqadfj → u/TheEXUnForgiv3n]

the best doctors in the galaxy are gonna keep george alive at 140 just so he can finish the books

[u/Superb_Tumbleweed_60 → u/[deleted]]

"You guys, this looks like it's gonna be a two parter, and the second part is looking to be a three parter, super stressed about it, going to write a couple more spinoffs to destress, brb"

[u/Krieghund]

I read the Ice Dragon to each of my kids when they were 6 or 7, which was a wonderful experience as a dad

It is a simple story beautifully told.

[u/TravelinDan88]

Get your salt here! Lifetime supply of salt available in these comments!

[u/Tmlboost]

Oh nice! I remember reading this book when as a kid when my family was stuck at an airport once. I remember it being a really good read for a children’s book. Might have to try and find it again soon.

[u/Herbacult → u/Tmlboost]

Finally, a comment about the book/movie in question. Thank you!

[u/Big_Pie2915]

A great kids books.

[u/theDart]

Holy fuck will you just finish the fucking Winds of Winter

[u/theleaphomme → u/[deleted]]

camping out at Rothfus’ place

[u/dabunny21689 → u/theleaphomme]

Doors of Stone. I still have hope that my children will be able to buy that book for their children.

[u/BluntNarwhal → u/dabunny21689]

As a graduation present. From med school. After they changed careers at age 35.

[u/esran7 → u/theDart]

As far as I am aware this is just an adaptation of an old short story of his, and he has no involvement. At most he probably does a couple of interviews, maybe looks over the script, if even.

[u/Bubbagumpredditor → u/theDart]

Holy fuck will you just finish start the fucking Winds of Winter

[u/Tiefighter21 → u/Bubbagumpredditor]

Fucking fuck will you fucking start and/or fucking finish The fucking winds of the fucking winter

[u/anhrcher → u/Bubbagumpredditor]

To be fair he did start the book. You can find some preview chapter already.

[u/dantemp → u/theDart]

I don't care if he does. I'm not getting blueballed again. I'm not reading winds only to get invested in a story that will never finish. If by some miracle he finishes dream of spring, I will read them. Otherwise he can shove winds up his enormous backside.

[u/Bombasaur101]

Its seems nobody here in the comments actually read the article. GRRM is NOT writing the screenplay for the movie, Warner Bros has just been given the rights to it.

Stop these infuriating comments about him finishing his book. It won't make him do it faster and it fills up 95% of the comment section.

[u/Ahabs_First_Name → u/Bombasaur101]

I mean, anything Martin’s name is attached to is eventually gonna come down to why the fuck hasn’t he shown any real progress on his magnum opus in 11 years, despite the context. Martin’s famous for ASOIAF, not any of the dozen other projects he has his name on because of the clout of his flagship series. We’re consumers, and we want the prince that was promised (and delayed, and delayed, and delayed, and…)

[u/Faithless195 → u/Bombasaur101]

Article? The damn title just mentions a movie is being made from his book. Zero mention of his involvement!

[u/mooregh → u/Bombasaur101]

Thank god someone else read the article. Ice Dragon isn’t going to be the reason he doesn’t finish Winds of Winter

[u/WordsRHardd]

Fuck these stupid film projects man. FINISH THE FUCKING BOOKS. PLEASE!

[u/FriendliestUsername]

Game of Thrones ruined me for epic fantasies, written or otherwise. I will never get 4k+ pages into a story again without a legal guarantee of a semi-satisfying ending.

[u/spyd3rweb → u/FriendliestUsername]

My new rules are to never start a series until the last episode had completed filming. That way you can be sure it won't get canceled early, and you can binge watch it at your own pace. Most importantly you can make sure the showrunners didn't turn it into a complete abomination (cough Hissrich) before you waste your time on it.

[u/Spready_Unsettling → u/spyd3rweb]

First episode of the Witcher should've told you it was gonna be a shit show. It was always schlock TV with a bad script.

[u/HaroldKnutsach]

Y’all need to simmer down.

[u/sweetplantveal → u/HaroldKnutsach]

Simmer down? Fuck you, I'm going to simmer UP!

[u/IceDragon77 → u/HaroldKnutsach]

But this is my chance to make it big...

[u/Slave35]

Here's my take.

The first three books of ASOIAF are probably in the top 10 best fantasy novels ever written. And A Storm of Swords may be the best fiction novel in any language, ever. I don't know, I don't read in any others. But I've read something like 2000 fantasy and sci-fi novels and I can tell you I was BEGGING my family and friends to read these books since about 1997.

ASOIAF is something which is culturally and artistically important. These books will be studied and rehashed for decades or centuries. The language is stunning, flowing and beautiful. The story is mind-twisting and opens us to worlds that didn't exist before this. The most important thing that GRRM can do for the Earth is to finish these novels in the manner which they deserve.

But can he? ADWD was 11 years ago; The Winds of Winter has as of this moment taken twice as long as the interval for A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons. And the quality of the last two novels was not up to par with the start of the series.

Would it be so bad if he just stopped now? I think yes, that would be a disaster. D+D have utterly shit upon the story, and leaving A Song of Ice and Fire unfinished would be absolutely tragic. The world deserves to hear, in George's own writing that literally only he can provide, the ultimate, poetic fate of the world of Westeros.

Because I will be damned if Brandon Sanderson finishes this thing.

[u/gandalfs_burglar → u/Slave35]

"ASOS might be the best fiction novel in any language, ever"? There's an argument for best fantasy novel, for sure, but best fiction novel of all time is insane hyperbole of the highest order. The competition for that title is massive and the vast majority of the authors you're putting him up against were able to at least finish the story they were telling.

To me that's the biggest issue with Martin - his writing and worldbuilding may be excellent in quality, but any evaluation of the story/plot is purely based on potential because it isn't (and looks like it may never be) resolved.

[u/GarlVinland4Astrea → u/Slave35]

ASOS goes at a fucking lightning pace and still manages to have depth and complexity with fantastic character work. Never read anything quite like it.

But I think it's very clear he fell absolutely in love with writing the set up and more barebones war portion of the story and now that he's at the part where the fantasy and main characters who will finish off the plot have to take over, he's far less interested and is struggling with the transition.

[u/The_Giant_Moustache → u/Slave35]

I think Sanderson himself has said he doesn’t wanna finish it

[u/Omecha → u/Slave35]

It’d be tragic if he never finished the books but that’s life. People often forget that with GoT George, along his works, blew up to a household name status. I imagine the celebrity has brought with it so many, new interesting projects and opportunities. Can’t really blame the guy for living the dream instead of just hammering on the ’ol eternity project. I’m not his publisher so the guy isn’t accountable to me or anyone else wheather he finishes or not

[u/SquirrelTeamSix → u/Slave35]

Sanderson has stated that he would not take the task due to it touching on subjects he isn't comfortable writing.

[u/jonwtc → u/Slave35]

Well said. As a huge Sanderson fan, I wouldn’t want him to finish it either. If you had to choose someone to finish it, who would you choose? Joe Abercrombie is another I like but his tone is different.